Yearly Rates... jBlu EMB190

[Flying Freddie]

What good is a union going to be. Look at the turmoil with NPA and the infighting. How are you going to negotiate a contract when you are at each others throats. No flame, just the truth and of course AirTran mgt just tells you to grieve it.

 

[satpak77]

career choices

I wonder how many guys at stable RJ carriers, such as Comair, Skywest, etc, are looking at just stay as senior RJ captain, flying brand new jet equipment, and being the senior guy, good days off, etc etc, won't ever make 250K a year but is that even possible today

 

[Daddy]

I can't imagine these guys will do this for long....either the pay OR the retirement (and maybe both) will come up to industry average or there will be a union. My guess is the smart cookies in Mgmt at JBLU will realize that this is low after they hear the grumbling and rethink this and/or up it soon...they don't want a union setting up shop already and those stock options aren't looking too good right now for a lot of people. They're on their honeymoon right now, but it won't last forever if they pull this stuff...this is well below SWA and SWA has a 7.3% matching 401K (compared to JBLU's 3%). The management types at JBLU are looking at what a brand new off-the-street captain will make his 1st 2 years on the 190...the initial guys will be captains to save training costs and involve a seat lock of 2 years...this lower pay scale and seat lock will keep a lot of A320 guys riding it out on the bus til they upgrade. For a new guy...this is actually more than what he would have made going to the right seat of the 320 for 30 months. I think that's how mgmt looked at it, but they didn't foresee how the pilots would look at it and the mistrust it might breed. There's a reason they're the only ones without a union in the business....and it's based on trust...if they feel like they're losing that trust, they'll cough up the dough quick to stave off a union.

 

[Heavy Set]

Jet Blue's management is basically signaling to the pilot group: hey, maybe you should consider bringing unionization to Jet Blue! What a joke! The pilots can't do squat now... Do they want to attract "better than average" pilots or would they like to see all of them go to SWA and AirTran? The debate as to whether pilots should pick Jet Blue or SWA will now be pretty easy - nobody wants to start off at sub-regional rates...

Meanwhile, everyone is castigating DAL pilots who actually want to maintain their industry-leading wages (keep the bar high for others to benchmark). What's this industry coming to? Say bye bye to our decent-paying profession - pretty soon the city bus drivers will be making more than pilots...

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Jet Blue's Management has done the same thing ours at ATA did:

They are betting on the natural propensity of pilots to not give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** about anyone underneath them on the seniority list.

Jet Blue pilots have stated that the rates don't affect them currently as most if not all current pilots will be in the left seat of the Airbus.

Only new-hires will have to suffer those rates.

We did the same thing here with our recent concessions and introduction of a 100 seat payscale. Although at the time I thought we had set the lowest standard for such a rate in the major airline industry.

It will only be years down the road that any negative momentum resulting in unionization will have a chance to take hold at Jet Blue after the newness of the job wears off...and the reality of the long-term payrates takes hold.

 

[Thedude]

Why dont we wait and see when they actually start operating the EMB and then will see if that rate still holds

 

[General Lee]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Funny!

 

[Boeingman]

It will only be years down the road that any negative momentum resulting in unionization will have a chance to take hold at Jet Blue after the newness of the job wears off...and the reality of the long-term payrates takes hold.

Problem is those who try and start an organizational campaign most likely will not have their 5 year contracts "renewed".

 

[Heavy Set]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Now that's funny! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha... That would be every newhire's nightmare! Another reason to focus on Fedex, UPS, SWA, Frontier, AirTran, Alaska, AWA and Spirit....

 

[Dizel8]

Spirit?

Auch, that hurt!

 

[FracCapt]

If the new hires go to the EMB-190 at the JFK base (?)---at those pay rates in the first year and second year as FO--they will have to rent a small room in a beat up house in Yonkers----and their landlord will be a J-Lo look-a-like who has a bigger butt and MORE ATTITUDE. She will constantly be asking them, "Yo, honey, I will kiss you all over if you can get me a free pass to Puerto Rico on your Fancy TV planes....., and give me some of those blue chips and I will make you blue all over...." I bet guys will be lining up for that!

Ok...maybe I don't agree with some of your opinions....but I laughed my a$$ off at that! I had a pretty frightening mental image to go along with it, too....

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Just talked with the President of Flight Operations here. No new hire will be forced to take the 190. They will have the opportunity to choose their airframe at hiring, however, if they pick the 320 their training date (and seniority) could be significantly delayed. How about them apples??? Those initially choosing the 190 could upgrade rapidly since there will be a fence protecting them to move up to the left seat. The initial bunch of 190 guys/gals will get typed on the aircraft so as to facilitate their upgrade. Hard to believe huh? So not such a bad deal after all!!!

 

[General Lee]

An initial delay in training dates and seniority. So, to keep better seniority, most would have to bid the Emb-190--and if there weren't enough people bidding that plane--you could be stuck on it for a while if Jetblue gets 3 a month etc... Hmmm--and how long would the back up be if there was such a huge pay disperity? Could there be a year wait? That would be interesting....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flying Freddie]

Hey General,

There are a lot of folks out there that will take it. Maybe even some DELTA guys/gals.

 

[General Lee]

True dat.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Everyone chill, it ain't a dun deal yet!!!

It is a management proposal and not accepted or implemented, yet. Yes, JB is non-union and it could be a forced issue. The delay of being hired and getting a seniority number could be a strong draw to make a new-hire accept it. There are still a lot of unemployed pilots that have been on the beach for a while.

I think many on this thread have been reactionary or have over reacted.

General Lee: if DAL management let out a press release suggesting a 50% pay cut for pilots, would it be unfair for others to go off saying you are pulling down the industry.....the rates are our doom....yada, yada, without waiting for a response from your pilot group?! Give the JB pilots some time to react and let's see how it plays out.

Bye Bye

Jeff

 

[Falconjet]

One list?

Sounds much more like a Crandall B scale (as the General mentioned) to me. Also, whatever happened to the one list concept for jetBlue? Fences, seat locks and lost seniority don't sound too much like one list to me.

Best of luck blue breathren.

FJ

 

[AAflyer]

American did come out with the "B scale" in the early to mid 80s, do you know why? It was a combative move against UAL. If you still do not understand, then take a look at what ole Dicky Ferris proposed, and what ALPA agreed to. It was known as the "Blue Skies" agreement.

AA

 

[BlueShoe320]

What????

Just talked with the President of Flight Operations here. No new hire will be forced to take the 190. They will have the opportunity to choose their airframe at hiring, however, if they pick the 320 their training date (and seniority) could be significantly delayed. How about them apples??? Those initially choosing the 190 could upgrade rapidly since there will be a fence protecting them to move up to the left seat. The initial bunch of 190 guys/gals will get typed on the aircraft so as to facilitate their upgrade. Hard to believe huh? So not such a bad deal after all!!!

Hey Blue Bayou...........um, are you serious, dude? Such a policy would be complete BS. It would just force new hires to make a Hobson's choice. Please don't try to put a positive spin on these ridiculously low EMB rates. No matter which airframe a new-hire "chooses", our fellow pilots will be flying this aircraft at pay rates which are simply unacceptable.