XJT pay concessions pass easily

[Nevets]

With a 10% profit margin and exclusive RJ flying guaranteed until 2007 this was the first real test that the XJT pilots had to face.

You guys failed just like everyone else. Welcome to the club.

I cannot believe that with EVERYONE else before you guys PROVING that pilot pay DOES NOT matter and will not save the company. You guys still voted for cuts.

The biggest reason why XJT found themselves in this position is because CAL told XJT, "absent our entering into a new CPA with savings on the magnitude that we have negotiated with Skywest..." Anyways, I'm sure you know about CALs threat of canceling the whole CPA otherwise.

Pilot pay seemed to matter on this one, at least to Skywest it did.

 

[flylike44]

6 pages of excuses.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

6 pages of excuses.

And 2 posts from you with absolutely nothing useful in them..

 

[flylike44]

And 2 posts from you with absolutely nothing useful in them..

must've hit a nerve.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

must've hit a nerve.

Haha.. I'd like you to hit a nerve. I'm always up for a challenge. That would require that you actually make a constructive response first though.

Come on, I dare you. None of this one line insult bullsh*t. I'm not so sure that you're capable.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The biggest reason why XJT found themselves in this position is because CAL told XJT, "absent our entering into a new CPA with savings on the magnitude that we have negotiated with Skywest..." Anyways, I'm sure you know about CALs threat of canceling the whole CPA otherwise.

Pilot pay seemed to matter on this one, at least to Skywest it did.

Funny how you ALPA chest thumpers make exceptions for your own situations....

Becasue of CPA's and portfolio whipsawing....Pilot pay matters on every property....

ALPA failed and now pilot pay is a factor as it is used to "bid" for flying....

Pilots want everyone else to fall on their swords and take one for the team.....while they do what is best for themselves on their own property.....

 

[flylike44]

Haha.. I'd like you to hit a nerve. I'm always up for a challenge. That would require that you actually make a constructive response first though.

Come on, I dare you. None of this one line insult bullsh*t. I'm not so sure that you're capable.

i keep my responses short and pithy for your benefit. i'm not so sure you're capable of understanding much else. nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

 

[Nevets]

Funny how you ALPA chest thumpers make exceptions for your own situations....

Becasue of CPA's and portfolio whipsawing....Pilot pay matters on every property....

ALPA failed and now pilot pay is a factor as it is used to "bid" for flying....

Pilots want everyone else to fall on their swords and take one for the team.....while they do what is best for themselves on their own property.....

I was just pointing out a fact of the situation. As you agreed, pilot pay does matter and that was exactly my point. This finally became very apparent to many at XJT after how this whole thing went down.

Voting the LOA down would not have been the equivalent to falling on our sword because that or anybody else not doing what is best for themselves is not going to solve the problem. The problem is much bigger than any one issue at any one particular property.

I'm not saying it wasn't ALPA's fault as a whole. As you know, many mistakes were made in the past purely on the basis of regional versus major mentality. I was just pointing out the fact on this particular issue. But I agree that this was just the symptom of a much larger disease that ALPA is trying to cure itself from.

 

[Nevets]

nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

No spin here, the XJT contract is still the industry leading contract despite this LOA passing.

But yeah, the turnout was pathetic to say the least, no excuse.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

double post.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

i keep my responses short and pithy for your benefit. i'm not so sure you're capable of understanding much else. nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

I don't think that taking the comments of a few obnoxious pilots from flightinfo and saying that they represent the attitude of our entire pilot group is fair. You're welcome to search through my posting history and you will not see such comments coming from me concerning other pilot groups. Now you're just as big of an idiot as they were for oversimplifying a complex situation just for the sake of pounding your own chest. Congratulations. As for being in "spin mode", I haven't spun anything.. I welcome you to challenge any of the comments that I have made in this thread if you're capable of responding with logic rather than emotion.

As for those who didn't vote, I agree with you on that. It is what it is.

 

[superrav]

damn guys, 6 pages.

 

[yahooair]

wait a minute, last year this time, express jet pilots we're gods because they had a great contract and hatted the idea of getting bought by SKYW for 3.00 a share.
now look at their situation.
you guys are now bashing them because they caved??
leave them alone.
**don't forget the SKYW pilots are the enemy**
where did we loose focus and stop bashing SKYW pilots.
What about ASA pilots out there...why is there no more bashing SKYW pilots lately??? come on.
You RJ pilots are a bunch of babies.
Just remember, when this all tanks, it was all SKYW pilots and not mngt. fault.
screw all SKYW pilots and the whole seniority list.
Please blackball all of them.
expressjet problems all began when SKYW and the pilots came into the picture. (mostly the pilots)
they really go out of their way to bring down the industry.
its in their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ carriers out there.
its not mesa pilots fault, somewhere in the mix, skyw pilots did something to make mesas rules the way they are.

 

[Nevets]

wait a minute, last year this time, express jet pilots we're gods because they had a great contract and hatted the idea of getting bought by SKYW for 3.00 a share.
now look at their situation.
you guys are now bashing them because they caved??
leave them alone.
**don't forget the SKYW pilots are the enemy**
where did we loose focus and stop bashing SKYW pilots.
What about ASA pilots out there...why is there no more bashing SKYW pilots lately??? come on.
You RJ pilots are a bunch of babies.
Just remember, when this all tanks, it was all SKYW pilots and not mngt. fault.
screw all SKYW pilots and the whole seniority list.
Please blackball all of them.
expressjet problems all began when SKYW and the pilots came into the picture. (mostly the pilots)
they really go out of their way to bring down the industry.
its in their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ carriers out there.
its not mesa pilots fault, somewhere in the mix, skyw pilots did something to make mesas rules the way they are.

I don't think many XJT pilots cared what the purchase price was. I don't think SKW pilots are the enemy. They are just passive in this whole industry. Some may say that that is being the enemy or at least giving the enemy aid and comfort. But if all this does tank, as you say, SKW pilots will have had no voice in the preceeding attempts in salvaging it like the other fee for departure cariers are currently trying to do throught the FFD Task Force. XJT pilots' problem didn't begin with SKW management's attempt to acquire their company but it sure exacerbated it. It may have helped the situation if the SKW pilots could speak with one voice and collaborate with the XJT pilots through their respective MECs just as ASA's MEC did.

Oh, and the SKW pilots don't have it their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ cariers because they don't have a contract to begin with.

 

[flylike44]

No spin here, the XJT contract is still the industry leading contract despite this LOA passing.

But yeah, the turnout was pathetic to say the least, no excuse.

maybe so, but by this vote your group has redefined what industry leading is. you've done a disservice to other groups still in negotiations looking to reach the point at which you USED to be. when your management comes to you asking for more, and they will, will you vote to lower the bar again? i guess it doesn't matter since you're still the "industry leader" and all.