XJT pay concessions pass easily

[JoeMerchant]

The biggest reason why XJT found themselves in this position is because CAL told XJT, "absent our entering into a new CPA with savings on the magnitude that we have negotiated with Skywest..." Anyways, I'm sure you know about CALs threat of canceling the whole CPA otherwise.

Pilot pay seemed to matter on this one, at least to Skywest it did.

Funny how you ALPA chest thumpers make exceptions for your own situations....

Becasue of CPA's and portfolio whipsawing....Pilot pay matters on every property....

ALPA failed and now pilot pay is a factor as it is used to "bid" for flying....

Pilots want everyone else to fall on their swords and take one for the team.....while they do what is best for themselves on their own property.....

 

[flylike44]

Haha.. I'd like you to hit a nerve. I'm always up for a challenge. That would require that you actually make a constructive response first though.

Come on, I dare you. None of this one line insult bullsh*t. I'm not so sure that you're capable.

i keep my responses short and pithy for your benefit. i'm not so sure you're capable of understanding much else. nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

 

[Nevets]

Funny how you ALPA chest thumpers make exceptions for your own situations....

Becasue of CPA's and portfolio whipsawing....Pilot pay matters on every property....

ALPA failed and now pilot pay is a factor as it is used to "bid" for flying....

Pilots want everyone else to fall on their swords and take one for the team.....while they do what is best for themselves on their own property.....

I was just pointing out a fact of the situation. As you agreed, pilot pay does matter and that was exactly my point. This finally became very apparent to many at XJT after how this whole thing went down.

Voting the LOA down would not have been the equivalent to falling on our sword because that or anybody else not doing what is best for themselves is not going to solve the problem. The problem is much bigger than any one issue at any one particular property.

I'm not saying it wasn't ALPA's fault as a whole. As you know, many mistakes were made in the past purely on the basis of regional versus major mentality. I was just pointing out the fact on this particular issue. But I agree that this was just the symptom of a much larger disease that ALPA is trying to cure itself from.

 

[Nevets]

nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

No spin here, the XJT contract is still the industry leading contract despite this LOA passing.

But yeah, the turnout was pathetic to say the least, no excuse.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

double post.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

i keep my responses short and pithy for your benefit. i'm not so sure you're capable of understanding much else. nothing i've posted has been insulting. xjet folks have been screaming at the top of their collective lungs about every other pilot group "lowering the bar" for what seems like centuries. many expected other groups to "stfd" rather than live to fight another day. now your turn has come and you dropped the ball. you took concessions plain and simple. now you're in spin mode. give it a rest already. an alarmingly large portion of your venerable group didn't even vote! pathetic. no excuse.

I don't think that taking the comments of a few obnoxious pilots from flightinfo and saying that they represent the attitude of our entire pilot group is fair. You're welcome to search through my posting history and you will not see such comments coming from me concerning other pilot groups. Now you're just as big of an idiot as they were for oversimplifying a complex situation just for the sake of pounding your own chest. Congratulations. As for being in "spin mode", I haven't spun anything.. I welcome you to challenge any of the comments that I have made in this thread if you're capable of responding with logic rather than emotion.

As for those who didn't vote, I agree with you on that. It is what it is.

 

[superrav]

damn guys, 6 pages.

 

[yahooair]

wait a minute, last year this time, express jet pilots we're gods because they had a great contract and hatted the idea of getting bought by SKYW for 3.00 a share.
now look at their situation.
you guys are now bashing them because they caved??
leave them alone.
**don't forget the SKYW pilots are the enemy**
where did we loose focus and stop bashing SKYW pilots.
What about ASA pilots out there...why is there no more bashing SKYW pilots lately??? come on.
You RJ pilots are a bunch of babies.
Just remember, when this all tanks, it was all SKYW pilots and not mngt. fault.
screw all SKYW pilots and the whole seniority list.
Please blackball all of them.
expressjet problems all began when SKYW and the pilots came into the picture. (mostly the pilots)
they really go out of their way to bring down the industry.
its in their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ carriers out there.
its not mesa pilots fault, somewhere in the mix, skyw pilots did something to make mesas rules the way they are.

 

[Nevets]

wait a minute, last year this time, express jet pilots we're gods because they had a great contract and hatted the idea of getting bought by SKYW for 3.00 a share.
now look at their situation.
you guys are now bashing them because they caved??
leave them alone.
**don't forget the SKYW pilots are the enemy**
where did we loose focus and stop bashing SKYW pilots.
What about ASA pilots out there...why is there no more bashing SKYW pilots lately??? come on.
You RJ pilots are a bunch of babies.
Just remember, when this all tanks, it was all SKYW pilots and not mngt. fault.
screw all SKYW pilots and the whole seniority list.
Please blackball all of them.
expressjet problems all began when SKYW and the pilots came into the picture. (mostly the pilots)
they really go out of their way to bring down the industry.
its in their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ carriers out there.
its not mesa pilots fault, somewhere in the mix, skyw pilots did something to make mesas rules the way they are.

I don't think many XJT pilots cared what the purchase price was. I don't think SKW pilots are the enemy. They are just passive in this whole industry. Some may say that that is being the enemy or at least giving the enemy aid and comfort. But if all this does tank, as you say, SKW pilots will have had no voice in the preceeding attempts in salvaging it like the other fee for departure cariers are currently trying to do throught the FFD Task Force. XJT pilots' problem didn't begin with SKW management's attempt to acquire their company but it sure exacerbated it. It may have helped the situation if the SKW pilots could speak with one voice and collaborate with the XJT pilots through their respective MECs just as ASA's MEC did.

Oh, and the SKW pilots don't have it their contract to ruin the lives of all other RJ cariers because they don't have a contract to begin with.

 

[flylike44]

No spin here, the XJT contract is still the industry leading contract despite this LOA passing.

But yeah, the turnout was pathetic to say the least, no excuse.

maybe so, but by this vote your group has redefined what industry leading is. you've done a disservice to other groups still in negotiations looking to reach the point at which you USED to be. when your management comes to you asking for more, and they will, will you vote to lower the bar again? i guess it doesn't matter since you're still the "industry leader" and all.

 

[Nevets]

maybe so, but by this vote your group has redefined what industry leading is. you've done a disservice to other groups still in negotiations looking to reach the point at which you USED to be. when your management comes to you asking for more, and they will, will you vote to lower the bar again? i guess it doesn't matter since you're still the "industry leader" and all.

Like I said already earlier on this thread, how would letting the leading contract in the regional segment disappear not perpetuate the problem of lowering the bar as a lower costing pilot contract would take over the flying. This way, the industry leading contract is preserved despite the LOA.

Our MEC chairman said that other regional MEC chairman thought the TA would be worse and that this TA wouldn't hurt their negotiations. Until someone actually matches the current XJT contract, that will be true. But I hope many are able to at least match it though.

And like I said earlier on this thread, I doubt management will be asking for more because they will probably just file for BK first.

 

[Lookingbetter]

All of these clowns that are bitching about the Express group taking this cut.... Most of you likely work for bottom feeders and were hoping they would vote it down, leading to more problems for XJT, which in turn helps your sorry ass employers.
Just another way to get more flying. I don't really care how the vote turned out. 2 of of 3 pilots at XJT were voting for their future, not the rest of you cry babies. Hell, that turn out is better than the Great Obama's turn out.

 

[The Boss]

maybe so, but by this vote your group has redefined what industry leading is. you've done a disservice to other groups still in negotiations looking to reach the point at which you USED to be. when your management comes to you asking for more, and they will, will you vote to lower the bar again? i guess it doesn't matter since you're still the "industry leader" and all.

I wonder how Mesa's new TA - that was negotiated before XJT's concessions - will compare. I would be willing to bet that it won't even be close. If it is, then good for them - but I'm not holding my breath.

We can't be expected to carry the torch forever - we need someone to better us. Everyone has had four years to do it, yet noone has been able to back us up.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Alpa

What is ALPA doing? Why are we fighting? Are we a Union or not? Explain, please! I don't get it. I just don't get it. Why should we not blame ALPA for this mess we are all in together? Why do we blame each other in the same union?

 

[JoeMerchant]

What is ALPA doing? Why are we fighting? Are we a Union or not? Explain, please! I don't get it. I just don't get it. Why should we not blame ALPA for this mess we are all in together? Why do we blame each other in the same union?

Logic will not be tolerated NEWSOUTH.....You must blindly follow your union of the cliff.....Now put on your ALPA lanyard and pin....read your ALPA magazine....and trust Herndon to make things right.......

On a serious note....You are 100% correct....I'm glad to see more people start to question their union.....Keep it up.....

 

[cybourg10]

What is ALPA doing? Why are we fighting? Are we a Union or not? Explain, please! I don't get it. I just don't get it. Why should we not blame ALPA for this mess we are all in together? Why do we blame each other in the same union?

ALPA has not done anything to stop this, they have only exacerbated the situation by allowing scope on larger aircraft and letting two different ALPA groups fly the same aircraft for 2 very different rates (XJT-MESA). One list, one payrate equals one real union. Easier said than done I know......

 

[coolyokeluke]

Logic will not be tolerated NEWSOUTH.....You must blindly follow your union of the cliff.....Now put on your ALPA lanyard and pin....read your ALPA magazine....and trust Herndon to make things right.......

On a serious note....You are 100% correct....I'm glad to see more people start to question their union.....Keep it up.....

This is how it should've been worded:
Logic will not be tolerated NEWSOUTH....You must blindly follow Skywest mgmt of (sic) the cliff....Now put on your Skywest lanyard and pin....read your Skywest mgmt propoganda release....and trust Jerry to make things right....

 

[Nevets]

What is ALPA doing? Why are we fighting? Are we a Union or not? Explain, please! I don't get it. I just don't get it. Why should we not blame ALPA for this mess we are all in together? Why do we blame each other in the same union?

You make it sound as if ALPA wanted all the concessions, bankruptcies, business failures, furloughs, downgrades, etc. There just isn't much if any leverage any union has right now. ALPA is trying to put the genie back in the bottle with the Fee for Departure Task Force and the single seniority list protocol though.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA is trying to put the genie back in the bottle with the Fee for Departure Task Force and the single seniority list protocol though.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The first ALPA scope committee formed back in 1995....They have accomplished nothing in 13 years...

The single seniority list movement is nothing more than scared United pilots looking to not have to start over again at the bottom.....They want "career benchmarks"....ie regional time doesn't count for the same time.....

Forget it.....

 

[Nevets]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The first ALPA scope committee formed back in 1995....They have accomplished nothing in 13 years...

The single seniority list movement is nothing more than scared United pilots looking to not have to start over again at the bottom.....They want "career benchmarks"....ie regional time doesn't count for the same time.....

Forget it.....

Show me the resolution that created that committee and what its scope and mandate was. How long before it was dissolved and what was did the final report say. What did the resolution about the report that the EC pass say? The point is that that committee may have had a different mandate than the current one and its certainly mandated by different people with a different set of circumstances. The main reason why this even has any sort of push right now is because some people have seen that about a dozen contracts will reach their amendment dates in the near future. It is an opportunity to do something about it IF there is going to be anything done about it. As for career benchmarks, that was removed from the final resolution, although I may not totally disagree with your cynicism about it. But the Fee for Departure Task Force will help mitigate that anyways.

This is going to take everyone willing to sacrifice a now for the betterment in the future.