XJ bid to NW

[YourPilotFriend]

If this is all going to happen, then tell me why they are attacking your scope contract with MAIR? Don't give me that Blue SKy crap either.

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[Butters]

If this is all going to happen, then tell me why they are attacking your scope contract with MAIR? Don't give me that Blue SKy crap either.

Uhh... "Blue SKy"? Uhh... okay.

Mesaba wants to blow up the scope with MAIR so they can send the Saabs away to Big Sky and not have to send the pilots with them. They realize they can't turn Big Sky into a jet operator for a lot of reasons but they can easily take the t-props. The scope says the pilots go with the planes but they want to keep the pilots to fly new jets. (That is straight from a managment source, by the way.)

The 70-seat thing is no guarantee but it is included in the RFP. So dispite scope at NWA they are already farming out 70-seat flying. We are not "guaranteed" anything yet. Based on XJ's bid, there is a good chance to win the RFP. Get ready for the battle in court.

Like I said before, no matter what happens, some pilot group will get the shaft on this.

 

[PCL_128]

If another company is ready and willing to come correct with the right price, why not go to them?

Because Northwest management cares more about control than anything else. Northwest would never put up with some hothead like Johnny O. because he won't be willing to ask "how high?" whenever Steenland says "Jump!". XJ and 9E do whatever Northwest wants, and that's the way that Northwest likes it. As long as there are any remnants of the current management team at Northwest, I don't believe you'll ever see some other regional code-share partner flying a red tail. If they don't get NewCo, then they'll either have the NWA guys fly them at mainline, or they'll get a deal on scope that allows XJ and 9E to fly them.

 

[igneousy2]

Do you actually believe that a Bankruptcy judge will think twice about cx'ing your SCOPE....PLEASE. If you actually belive this, you have been under a rock the past few years. If you think Scope is a high priority for your union...maybe...but not as important as pay and retirement. Watch how quickly that scope clause goes away when push comes to shove. In fact, if you actually believe that bringing furloughed pilots back is a high priority you're smoking some strong crack. The often re-spoken words from unions is "we are protecting our pay and workrules so that if our furloughed guys ever get to come back, they will want to come back." Look at Hawaiian, look at how many guys at Hawaiian are STILL picking up Open time with 20% of their pilots on the street. I would bet that the same thing is happening at Delta and Northwest.

If you think your "brothers" still with jobs are doing everything they can to get you back from the street....hahahahahaha!

later

 

[Yudso]

Unless Mair and big sky are brought into the bankruptcy, the judge can't touch msa alpa's scope.

 

[PCL_128]

Do you actually believe that a Bankruptcy judge will think twice about cx'ing your SCOPE....PLEASE. If you actually belive this, you have been under a rock the past few years.

Please state a single case of a BK judge actually granting an 1113(c) motion. Actually, I'll just save you the time: it's never happened!!! If this judge actually throws out the NWA CBA, then it will be the first time in history that a judge has actually abrogated a CBA. I don't think we'll see it happen. BK judges tend not to like forging new ground with ambiguous laws.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Most likely scenario: The contract is sent to a third party arbitrartor, and takes months to finally settle the deal. It will be a very long time before anything is settled with XJ or 9E especially if NewCo is allowed to happen. If XJ doesn;t get NewCo flying, expect them to go nowhere for years. To say this all unfolds over the course of the next few weeks is premature. I would say over the next few years.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Okay, for all of you who think this is another rumor, let me just say this. I have heard many many rumors, and I don't post those. It is a fact that XJ has an RFT for 49 saab, 25 50's, and 50 70's. If and when we get that, remains to be seen. In my opinion, we have a good chance of it happening. I don't feel that this would be stealing flying from NW pilots. As I said before, it basically would be putting us where we were before NW BK BS. I am very much hoping that NewCo doesn't come into play, and the mainline gets whatever would have gone to it. God, this industry sucks.

 

[wmudriver]

Something is up if XJ mgmt is trying to work out some bs seat lock deal. Why would we need it if we're just going to be a single type fleet?

 

[Grimper]

This thread is the corner stone of our (the pilots) down fall.
We are not part of the bidding process. We don't set policy or manage the companys we work for. Yet 1/3 of these posts speak as if we do. NWA, XJ, and 9E pilots have little to no control over what happens with this bid.
In stead of trying to blame each other the three pilot groups should be sticking togeather.
Blaming each other simply facilitates the race to the bottom.
We can not manage to companys, or the bids or the flying.
What we can do is stand togeather and get the best possable contracts.
Wonking at each other over who's at fault for the findings of the judge is retarded. Thats like trying to blame each other at a super bowl party for your team loseing. We are not the coachs.
How about some soladarity!

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Scope is not going anywhere...Most mainline guys Ive talked to said they will shut NWA down before they give up scope...I hope big Northwest gets the seventy seaters, cause I know I dont want to fly them for 55 an hour.....

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

does one seat really make much of a difference? I've been flying 69 all year. I would take a layoff rather than a paycut if that matters to ya....
hell I think I'd take a laytoff rather than status quoe for that matter. At least I'd see my wife for once. And I could join the bowling league.....

 

[DTWFO]

I hope NWA files for Chapter 7 and liquidates so I can get a pay raise...........on unemployment! They'd be doing me a favor.

 

[IHateMgmt]

This thread is the corner stone of our (the pilots) down fall.
We are not part of the bidding process. We don't set policy or manage the companys we work for. Yet 1/3 of these posts speak as if we do. NWA, XJ, and 9E pilots have little to no control over what happens with this bid.
In stead of trying to blame each other the three pilot groups should be sticking togeather.
Blaming each other simply facilitates the race to the bottom.
We can not manage to companys, or the bids or the flying.
What we can do is stand togeather and get the best possable contracts.
Wonking at each other over who's at fault for the findings of the judge is retarded. Thats like trying to blame each other at a super bowl party for your team loseing. We are not the coachs.
How about some soladarity!

You've got to be kidding me. This thread is NOT the cornerstone of our downfall. It was meant to get the facts out there, and possibly chear up some of us pilots who are looking at an otherwise bleak future here at XJ. I am aware that I play virtually no part in the bidding process, I guess I'm just interested in what is happening at the airline that I'm scheduled to be furloughed from and a number of pilots already are. You can let me know how you feel when (not if) you get your first furlough notice.

 

[MesabaDriver]

GRIMPER said it correct. When all of us where doing other things we all killed to be here. We all thought that the GEM queen air hauling frieght was the best thing in the world to do. Now that we are all here we see the same ol thing but in someone elses sandbox again. We have no control. So we dont take a cut, hold out and strike worse case scenario. Then what. They will replace us faster than you can even know whats happening. Dont get me wrong im with most of you that i will find other employment and strike if it comes to that, but dont be so nieve as to think that anyone is this bussines cares about you. Do you think spandex looses sleep over your 1200 take home base pay. There is no optimism, you know why, because you work in a industry that is controlled by so many variables that it will never be stable or anything like it every was. Ive never been furloughed thankfully but i feel the day is comming here at XJ. But you know what WHO CARES. We arent the first group to go through this and wont be the last. Explain to someone who was at TWA and now hes on the street for AA. His recall will expire before he goes back. There is always someone who has it worse than you. XJ is going to get striped and hopefully rebuilt the question is are you willing to hold out for your spot for a few months or a year. Are you willing to be the greeter at Walmart for the same pay about until you get your job back? Its going around, you are not safe at any regional. Express, Air Willey, Horizon it doesnt matter. It comming. As long as mainline holds the carrot we are just here for the ride. I just wanted to throw this in there for those of you leaving to other airlines congrats on finding other employment, But XJ will come back around because no matter what is said on here the workers care. To the gentlemen earlier raving about horizon, their contract is up in the fall and since the are directly owned by Ak Air group and after what the air gorup did to the AK air pilots , good luck. LETS ALL RACE TO THE BOTTOM TOGETHER.
CCCCCCCCCAYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[igneousy2]

Please state a single case of a BK judge actually granting an 1113(c) motion. Actually, I'll just save you the time: it's never happened!!! If this judge actually throws out the NWA CBA, then it will be the first time in history that a judge has actually abrogated a CBA. I don't think we'll see it happen. BK judges tend not to like forging new ground with ambiguous laws.

I'll concede that a judge has never thrown out an entire contract, however, parts of contracts are "adjusted" all the time. The threat of a judge throwing out the whole contract is enough to make any MEC crumble. Most MEC's end up negotiating with management so that they can pick their own poison when it comes to what will be given up. And as the rest of my post points out, scope clauses are not very high on the list of priorities.

later

 

[theo]

This thread is the corner stone of our (the pilots) down fall.
We are not part of the bidding process. We don't set policy or manage the companys we work for. Yet 1/3 of these posts speak as if we do. NWA, XJ, and 9E pilots have little to no control over what happens with this bid.
In stead of trying to blame each other the three pilot groups should be sticking togeather.
Blaming each other simply facilitates the race to the bottom.
We can not manage to companys, or the bids or the flying.
What we can do is stand togeather and get the best possable contracts.
Wonking at each other over who's at fault for the findings of the judge is retarded. Thats like trying to blame each other at a super bowl party for your team loseing. We are not the coachs.
How about some soladarity!

Personally ...I would blame the players for losing the super bowl!