XJ bid to NW

[IHateMgmt]

Hey guys,

Just flew 360PX to the graveyard today with a CP. That was the ninth of our 11 straight B's and the other two are scheduled for the 13th. (I've got pictures to prove it, in case some of you still don't believe they are actually going).

That's the bad news, the good news (and this is straight from the CP) is that XJ has put in a bid to NW. If awarded, we would retain 49 SF34, 25 fifty seaters, and 50 seventy seaters. Those are the real numbers, anything else you hear is not true. He also felt positive about our odds of getting it.

Take care

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

 

[BoilerUP]

Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

When unemployment is the alternative? Yeah, I'd say so.

 

[DetoXJ]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

No. What we really want is to see all of our Avros go away. 1/2 of our Saabs go away and be left with just a small Saab fleet. That way we can furlough hundreds of FO's and downgrade 100's of Captains.

 

[screwed_again]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

You have to be a furloughed NWA guy, scraping by and praying for a job at NWA.

 

[Butters]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

No matter what, some pilot group gets screwed out of jobs and some pilot group whores out for less money than they should be making.

Does it really matter anymore? Everyone is in survival mode. If you aren't on board with that thinking, you will be left behind.

I am NOT advocating whoring out (a la Mesa) but when you think about it, NWA flying 70 seaters at regional rates is the same thing.

This whole industry sucks and someone is going to get the major shaft in this deal one way or another. I guess it's tough to point fingers at people who are only trying to feed their families.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

You mainline guys are really clueless aren't you? Maybe you guys should have thought about this issue 10 years ago. Now it's too late. I want my airline to grow so that I have more opportunities. I don't want some hope that I can fly the 70 seater at mainline for essentially the same rates and workrules, only without my seniority and longevity. I would rather they come here so I can keep my seniority and longevity.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

You mainline guys are really clueless aren't you? Maybe you guys should have thought about this issue 10 years ago. Now it's too late. I want my airline to grow so that I have more opportunities. I don't want some hope that I can fly the 70 seater at mainline for essentially the same rates and workrules, only without my seniority and longevity. I would rather they come here so I can keep my seniority and longevity.

Last I heard, they were trying to rid you guys of your brand scope. You know the 20 seats and more must be flown by a XJ pilot. Why would they want that? Say hello to the new MAIR subsidary and goodbye to your longevity. I may be furloughed out of NWA but i'm still in line to make $170,000. I just have to wait a few more years, since i'm still young. You guys have nothing but the promise of 70 seat airplanes at less than 50 seat pay. The way I see it, you guys are clueless.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Yes this will happen if NWA gets out of the scope contract with the pilots. Do you really want those 70 seat airplanes?

I don't know what you're getting your panties all in a bunch about. We are already flying the AVROs with 69 seats. The plan is to phase out the AVROs as they phase in the CRJs. Basically not much is changing since last summer, expect we will finally get the 50 seaters we were promised. As a guy who is scheduled to be furloughed in a month, its just nice to hear that our airline will probably return to normal soon.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I don't know what you're getting your panties all in a bunch about. We are already flying the AVROs with 69 seats. The plan is to phase out the AVROs as they phase in the CRJs. Basically not much is changing since last summer, expect we will finally get the 50 seaters we were promised. As a guy who is scheduled to be furloughed in a month, its just nice to hear that our airline will probably return to normal soon.

When did they announce the 50 seaters are being delivered?

 

[flyin backwards]

Last I heard, they were trying to rid you guys of your brand scope. You know the 20 seats and more must be flown by a XJ pilot. Why would they want that? Say hello to the new MAIR subsidary and goodbye to your longevity. I may be furloughed out of NWA but i'm still in line to make $170,000. I just have to wait a few more years, since i'm still young. You guys have nothing but the promise of 70 seat airplanes at less than 50 seat pay. The way I see it, you guys are clueless.

Boy you are a gem. How long have you been furloughed. Maybe your recall rights will expire and you could reapply at mesaba. You did use to work here didn't you. Are your initials DB???

 

[flyin backwards]

That's the bad news, the good news (and this is straight from the CP) is that XJ has put in a bid to NW. If awarded, we would retain 49 SF34, 25 fifty seaters, and 50 seventy seaters. Those are the real numbers, anything else you hear is not true. He also felt positive about our odds of getting it.


None of this is more than rumor now. Northwest scope will not allow it, and until that is changed we can't believe anything we here. So it doesn't matter what the CP tells anyone.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Well, T-minus four days until the curtain will be lifted. Lots of peoples lives will change on that day, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Rossa]

Are you referring to the 16th? I assume you are talking about the NWA meeting with the judge, or is there something else?

 

[filejw]

The 16th or is it 17th only is the day things get started.The judge can do lots of things and has up to 30 days to make a decision.Its just a start date.

 

[PCL_128]

Nothing happens in four days. That's only the first hearing, and the judge is allowed 30 days to make any decision. No judge is going to make a decision earlier than absolutely necessary, because they want to try to force the two parties to come to a consensual agreement.

For what it's worth, our CP is basically saying the same sort of crap (EMBs by late next year, things are looking up, growth is coming, yada, yada, yada). Honestly, the CPs don't know anything. They are kept in the dark or even fed straight out lies by upper management in order to coerce the pilot group unknowingly. In the end, no one will be flying a 70+ seat airplane until NWA scope changes. It hasn't happened yet, so no matter what any CP says, 70+ seat airplanes aren't on the way to anyone at this point.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Yeah, I was just referrring to the fact that the process is going to be starting... I realize that this is gonna be a long road.

 

[Waylon]

I can see NWA giving us 25 of PCL's 50 seat RJ's just to get the race to the bottom moving a tad bit faster. XJ will start acquiring the jets at the same pace the avro's are replaced. If am not mistaken the 70 seat crj and the 50 seat crj are the same type rating just some differences training. When and if we do get 70 seaters the transition will be seemless. Just my thoughts for what could happen.

 

[Cokie907]

I'm with Waylon on this one. Typed a big reply yesterday but it magically disappeared when I attempted to post it. Whiskey tango fox, over?

I don't think 9E or XJ will fly any 70 seaters because NWA needed these planes flying the routes...YESTERDAY! It would take too long for us to ramp up those 70 seat programs. If another company is ready and willing to come correct with the right price, why not go to them?

Hate to say it, but I believe we will be giving up CRJ200's as XJ removes Avros from their system next spring. From what I've read, a CRJ program achieves its max. efficiency at 75 or greater hulls so I believe about 40 of the planes will be transferred to XJ to give them a mixed fleet of about 80 aircraft. That will make both "Airlinks" of comparable size and set up a perfect situation for future whipsawing tactics!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I disagree with you on one thing. With the CRJ2 and CRJ7 so similiar, it would not be a big venture to start up that fleet at an airline that is currently flying the CRJ2. So both XJ and 9E are positioned for that type of aircraft.