XJ bid to NW

[PCL_128]

Nothing happens in four days. That's only the first hearing, and the judge is allowed 30 days to make any decision. No judge is going to make a decision earlier than absolutely necessary, because they want to try to force the two parties to come to a consensual agreement.

For what it's worth, our CP is basically saying the same sort of crap (EMBs by late next year, things are looking up, growth is coming, yada, yada, yada). Honestly, the CPs don't know anything. They are kept in the dark or even fed straight out lies by upper management in order to coerce the pilot group unknowingly. In the end, no one will be flying a 70+ seat airplane until NWA scope changes. It hasn't happened yet, so no matter what any CP says, 70+ seat airplanes aren't on the way to anyone at this point.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Yeah, I was just referrring to the fact that the process is going to be starting... I realize that this is gonna be a long road.

 

[Waylon]

I can see NWA giving us 25 of PCL's 50 seat RJ's just to get the race to the bottom moving a tad bit faster. XJ will start acquiring the jets at the same pace the avro's are replaced. If am not mistaken the 70 seat crj and the 50 seat crj are the same type rating just some differences training. When and if we do get 70 seaters the transition will be seemless. Just my thoughts for what could happen.

 

[Cokie907]

I'm with Waylon on this one. Typed a big reply yesterday but it magically disappeared when I attempted to post it. Whiskey tango fox, over?

I don't think 9E or XJ will fly any 70 seaters because NWA needed these planes flying the routes...YESTERDAY! It would take too long for us to ramp up those 70 seat programs. If another company is ready and willing to come correct with the right price, why not go to them?

Hate to say it, but I believe we will be giving up CRJ200's as XJ removes Avros from their system next spring. From what I've read, a CRJ program achieves its max. efficiency at 75 or greater hulls so I believe about 40 of the planes will be transferred to XJ to give them a mixed fleet of about 80 aircraft. That will make both "Airlinks" of comparable size and set up a perfect situation for future whipsawing tactics!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I disagree with you on one thing. With the CRJ2 and CRJ7 so similiar, it would not be a big venture to start up that fleet at an airline that is currently flying the CRJ2. So both XJ and 9E are positioned for that type of aircraft.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If this is all going to happen, then tell me why they are attacking your scope contract with MAIR? Don't give me that Blue SKy crap either.

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[Butters]

If this is all going to happen, then tell me why they are attacking your scope contract with MAIR? Don't give me that Blue SKy crap either.

Uhh... "Blue SKy"? Uhh... okay.

Mesaba wants to blow up the scope with MAIR so they can send the Saabs away to Big Sky and not have to send the pilots with them. They realize they can't turn Big Sky into a jet operator for a lot of reasons but they can easily take the t-props. The scope says the pilots go with the planes but they want to keep the pilots to fly new jets. (That is straight from a managment source, by the way.)

The 70-seat thing is no guarantee but it is included in the RFP. So dispite scope at NWA they are already farming out 70-seat flying. We are not "guaranteed" anything yet. Based on XJ's bid, there is a good chance to win the RFP. Get ready for the battle in court.

Like I said before, no matter what happens, some pilot group will get the shaft on this.

 

[PCL_128]

If another company is ready and willing to come correct with the right price, why not go to them?

Because Northwest management cares more about control than anything else. Northwest would never put up with some hothead like Johnny O. because he won't be willing to ask "how high?" whenever Steenland says "Jump!". XJ and 9E do whatever Northwest wants, and that's the way that Northwest likes it. As long as there are any remnants of the current management team at Northwest, I don't believe you'll ever see some other regional code-share partner flying a red tail. If they don't get NewCo, then they'll either have the NWA guys fly them at mainline, or they'll get a deal on scope that allows XJ and 9E to fly them.

 

[igneousy2]

Do you actually believe that a Bankruptcy judge will think twice about cx'ing your SCOPE....PLEASE. If you actually belive this, you have been under a rock the past few years. If you think Scope is a high priority for your union...maybe...but not as important as pay and retirement. Watch how quickly that scope clause goes away when push comes to shove. In fact, if you actually believe that bringing furloughed pilots back is a high priority you're smoking some strong crack. The often re-spoken words from unions is "we are protecting our pay and workrules so that if our furloughed guys ever get to come back, they will want to come back." Look at Hawaiian, look at how many guys at Hawaiian are STILL picking up Open time with 20% of their pilots on the street. I would bet that the same thing is happening at Delta and Northwest.

If you think your "brothers" still with jobs are doing everything they can to get you back from the street....hahahahahaha!

later

 

[Yudso]

Unless Mair and big sky are brought into the bankruptcy, the judge can't touch msa alpa's scope.

 

[PCL_128]

Do you actually believe that a Bankruptcy judge will think twice about cx'ing your SCOPE....PLEASE. If you actually belive this, you have been under a rock the past few years.

Please state a single case of a BK judge actually granting an 1113(c) motion. Actually, I'll just save you the time: it's never happened!!! If this judge actually throws out the NWA CBA, then it will be the first time in history that a judge has actually abrogated a CBA. I don't think we'll see it happen. BK judges tend not to like forging new ground with ambiguous laws.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Most likely scenario: The contract is sent to a third party arbitrartor, and takes months to finally settle the deal. It will be a very long time before anything is settled with XJ or 9E especially if NewCo is allowed to happen. If XJ doesn;t get NewCo flying, expect them to go nowhere for years. To say this all unfolds over the course of the next few weeks is premature. I would say over the next few years.

 

[IHateMgmt]

Okay, for all of you who think this is another rumor, let me just say this. I have heard many many rumors, and I don't post those. It is a fact that XJ has an RFT for 49 saab, 25 50's, and 50 70's. If and when we get that, remains to be seen. In my opinion, we have a good chance of it happening. I don't feel that this would be stealing flying from NW pilots. As I said before, it basically would be putting us where we were before NW BK BS. I am very much hoping that NewCo doesn't come into play, and the mainline gets whatever would have gone to it. God, this industry sucks.

 

[wmudriver]

Something is up if XJ mgmt is trying to work out some bs seat lock deal. Why would we need it if we're just going to be a single type fleet?