Would you leave CAL for NJA?

[refplusnone]

100% paid medical.

Is this for the employee only or the whole Family? Wife 2 kids.

Ref

 

[tk855]

Is this for the employee only or the whole Family? Wife 2 kids.

Ref

That is the whole family, it covers me, my wife, and my two kids. Medical, dental, and vision.

 

[Jafo73]

Is this for the employee only or the whole Family? Wife 2 kids.

Ref

Whole Family. $20 co-pay when you go to a doctor. No referals required for specialists. For those who might be expecting, my brother's wife just had there second kid... $300 ($150 for the wife, $150 for the kid) and that was it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Is this for the employee only or the whole Family? Wife 2 kids.

Ref

Whole family.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I would like to see that math. If you have an insider trade secret method of making those dollars with a 126K base on the proposed 18-day schedule, do your union brothers and sisters a favor and lay it on us.

No secrets. Just equal pay for equal work.

I've run a yearly expected earnings budget on myself since starting here and I've come within 5% each time.

Base salary plus OT, 1 week vaca sell back, PTO sell back (6 days), Extended days I will fly, Holidays I will work on my sched, one time signing bonus, 6% average OT (for me) over base salary, etc. is what I use to make my calculations.

I can even calculate my take home pay by taking 45% off the top for taxes, fees and 401K.

I bet you are one of the pilots screaming about not having a hard copy of the TA to review. Ctrl+P must be too hard to enter on the keyboard? You need me to run a projected earnings analysis for you now?

You haven't done this yet?

I don't do side work. ASAP doesn't cover those gigs.

 

[Diesel]

Base salary plus OT, 1 week vaca sell back, PTO sell back (6 days), Extended days I will fly, Holidays I will work on my sched, one time signing bonus, 6% average OT (for me) over base salary, etc. is what I use to make my calculations.

I don't think is what Charlie Varrick ment when he said BASE salary. If you want to work all the angles of course you can make more money. But we're talking BASE here.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I don't think is what Charlie Varrick ment when he said BASE salary. If you want to work all the angles of course you can make more money. But we're talking BASE here.

I didn't see where he mentioned anything about BASE numbers. Even he can read those. I took his post to mean, "I'm not capable of reading the TA to see how I might make money NOT listed in a table in Section 27. Will you read the TA to me?" He can do it. He's a big boy.

Base is equivillent to a 121 companies Guarantee Pay. I don't know of many 121 pilots who plan on making just guarantee. Maybe there are some. I was never one.

The "angles" here are our version of making money over Guarantee Pay. In fact, I think it's nice to be able to plan our a year to see what I could expect to make above base.

One never knows untill the last paycheck of the year though so that's why I call it a projection.

 

[av8tor4239]

NO question.. quit CAL run and dont look back.. you will be much happier at NJ

 

[satpak77]

these days 100% paid medical is something to appreciate. Go have some kids like I did (two healthy babies, thank God) and you will thank your lucky charms that you have medical coverage

but of course that is in conflict with Kit Darby's teachings

fly a late model Citation 10 with fully paid medical for Warren Buffet's company or you can go with CAL's apparent insurance issues discussed in this thread

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=105047&highlight=medical+insurance

 

[cal73cap]

Yeah, it's tough.

Drove to work and preflighted the jet about 250 ft from where I parked. Sat around on standby with my flying partner yesterday at the FBO in a leather recliner. I drank green tea, ate company provided crewmeals... Chicken Cordon Bleu (sp?) and sliced filet (medium rare) while watching various sporting events and movies.

Enjoyed a great layover last night complete with Irish tunes and scenery. I couldn't understand a darned thing the guy with the mic was saying. Sounded like Brad Pitt's character in Snatch. Pure awesomeness.

Today... preflighted the jet. Repeat for 6 hours only changing the meals slightly. Bad Boys 2 is on the big screen. Flight later this afternoon.

All that and I expect to make 155K-185K next year depending on what schedule I will bid. Not bad and FAR better than average.

I will never go back to a major if I have the choice. I would leave aviation first.

Now, for a F/O starting out... if the TA passes... I still think this is a better deal. QOL is FAR better than 121. F/Os make somewhere arounf 68% of what Captains make here so earning potential is not bad in the right seat.

100% paid medical.

50% match on 401K up to the federal limit. ROTH 401K option too.

No commute. No sleeping in crew rooms on a hard floor while listening to the sounds of two random crewmembers sneaking a quickie on the couch around the corner.

Hiltons, Marriotts, Crowne Plazas and Hyatts for hotels (with the occasional Holiday Inn type hotel in smaller markets).

Crew food.

TSA exposure usually only 2wice per tour.

The ONLY thing I see 121 offering now is a diferent crew dynamic. I can do without that.

A couple of other things to consider that are way bigger than the type of flying we do.

1) We have the financial backing of Berk Hath (Warren Buffett) here. They print their own money...

2) Our CEO MADE this business. He loves it. I far more enjoy having him at the helm than some trust fund reject that made Cs and Ds at the Wharton School of Business.

3) We will not park airplanes as the price of oil climbs. Our Owners will fly regardless.

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

 

[lookin4better]

1) We have the financial backing of Berk Hath (Warren Buffett) here. They print their own money...

2) Our CEO MADE this business. He loves it. I far more enjoy having him at the helm than some trust fund reject that made Cs and Ds at the Wharton School of Business.

3) We will not park airplanes as the price of oil climbs. Our Owners will fly regardless.

These are HUGE points!

 

[asayankee]

When is the decision on the TA supposed to be announced?

 

[VVJM265]

Don't come to NetJets...

I haven't posted much on here lately but have been meaning to say this for a while. Don't come here...

- If you aren't willing to load the bags in the jet;
- If you aren't willing to spend a few minutes briefing the pax with a smile on your face and going the extra step to make sure they are comfortable (like helping the old lady get her seatbelt fastened, making sure they have they have a blanket, etc);
- If you aren't willing to clean up the cabin after the pax leave after each flight; it only takes about 10 min on a BAD day (that was a family w/ two kids who trashed the plane);
- If you aren't willing to make sure the plane is stocked and cleaned before every flight or before you turn it over to the next crew;
- If you aren't willing to do the Jepps updates every other week or whatever the cycle is;
- If your ego is dependent on the size of your aircraft;
- If you don't want every day to be different;
- If you don't want to fly into uncontrolled airfields;
etc, etc, etc.

The point is that at NetJets you will be a customer service rep, who happens to also fly the airplane. If you are willing to make that little extra effort and want some real job security and some of the best flying out there, then by all means come here.

You will meet some great people, like Flylow22. Every week is different and you never know where they will send you; for example the week 22 & I flew together we sat at the FBO somewhere in TX day 1 while we watched his collection of DVDs on the 70" TV; next day flew empty to Sedona, picked up 4 golfers and took them to Modesto, then empty to LAS and met up with his AirTran buddies for beer; LAS-SJC-TUS-SFO the next day; day 4 was SFO-SMO and then my poor PIC got sick so they put us up in the Sheraton 4 blocks from the beach in Santa Monica. Man that sucked. And so the week went... One week I was able to see my parents, brother, sister and daughter all within two days. Another week, I had dinner with my cousins I hadn't seen in 2 yrs. Last week flew empty to Cabo to pick up 3 pax and take them to Brown Field in San Diego.

The new TA hasn't passed yet, but it looks good and is expected to pass. It will make NetJets a very attractive career option, one of the best, IMO. If anyone is planning on leaving the majors to come here, please do your homework. There are some things that are different from the 121 world like I described above. This is my first civilan flying job and I plan on staying here till the end of my flying days. I truly hope hope that anyone who comes here is as happy as I am.

Now back to the big screen TV while the puzzle palace tries to figure out where to send us today.

Best of luck to the original poster in your decision...
VVJM265
:beer:

 

[VVJM265]

Don't come to NetJets...

duplicate

 

[johnsonrod]

I haven't posted much on here lately but have been meaning to say this for a while. Don't come here...

- If you aren't willing to load the bags in the jet;
- If you aren't willing to spend a few minutes briefing the pax with a smile on your face and going the extra step to make sure they are comfortable (like helping the old lady get her seatbelt fastened, making sure they have they have a blanket, etc);
- If you aren't willing to clean up the cabin after the pax leave after each flight; it only takes about 10 min on a BAD day (that was a family w/ two kids who trashed the plane);
- If you aren't willing to make sure the plane is stocked and cleaned before every flight or before you turn it over to the next crew;
- If you aren't willing to do the Jepps updates every other week or whatever the cycle is;
- If your ego is dependent on the size of your aircraft;
- If you don't want every day to be different;
- If you don't want to fly into uncontrolled airfields;
etc, etc, etc.

The point is that at NetJets you will be a customer service rep, who happens to also fly the airplane. If you are willing to make that little extra effort and want some real job security and some of the best flying out there, then by all means come here.

You will meet some great people, like Flylow22. Every week is different and you never know where they will send you; for example the week 22 & I flew together we sat at the FBO somewhere in TX day 1 while we watched his collection of DVDs on the 70" TV; next day flew empty to Sedona, picked up 4 golfers and took them to Modesto, then empty to LAS and met up with his AirTran buddies for beer; LAS-SJC-TUS-SFO the next day; day 4 was SFO-SMO and then my poor PIC got sick so they put us up in the Sheraton 4 blocks from the beach in Santa Monica. Man that sucked. And so the week went... One week I was able to see my parents, brother, sister and daughter all within two days. Another week, I had dinner with my cousins I hadn't seen in 2 yrs. Last week flew empty to Cabo to pick up 3 pax and take them to Brown Field in San Diego.

The new TA hasn't passed yet, but it looks good and is expected to pass. It will make NetJets a very attractive career option, one of the best, IMO. If anyone is planning on leaving the majors to come here, please do your homework. There are some things that are different from the 121 world like I described above. This is my first civilan flying job and I plan on staying here till the end of my flying days. I truly hope hope that anyone who comes here is as happy as I am.

Now back to the big screen TV while the puzzle palace tries to figure out where to send us today.

Best of luck to the original poster in your decision...
VVJM265
:beer:

Great post. And it dispells the theory that all fractional pilots are super busy during their tours. Clearly your fleet type can make a big difference. If you fly the Citation X or XL/XLS you may be very busy. If you fly the Encore/Ultra or Beechjet you may not fly much at all but you are still paid well. Fleet type matters.

Fractional flying may not be for everyone - flexibility is a requirement. But NJA's new TA will certainly attract a lot of attention if it passes soon... Apply now before the onslaught of applications begins.

 

[NJA Capt]

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

In the 10 years I have been here, there have been two market downturns, the dot-com crash and 9/11. No furloughs, no layoffs and no planes sold. Customers, pilots and planes have kept coming. I am not saying we are immune, but so far it hasn't affected the frac world the same as full-corporate departments or airlines.

Regardless of airline opinions, there is a large contingent of "A-list" pax who will NEVER ride on an airliner. That list is much larger than you think.

 

[Guitar Guy]

When is the decision on the TA supposed to be announced?

The vote count is November 20 - a week from this coming Tuesday.

 

[LJDRVR]

Stick with CAL. More money over the course of your career, and more options for lifestyle. I'm in the same boat as you are seniority-wise and yes, they work us like dogs. But things are getting better all the time, Section six starts in April, we're on track to make a Billion dollars this year and have three Billion in the bank.

Netjets is a great company, but for my personal tastes, I like my airline standardization, and having control over my schedule and life. I know where I'm going next and I'll never have to sit around and FBO waiting on people again.

Read On You Six's post. Excellent advice there.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

Actually, we have a waiting list for Owners. This company is limited by infrastructure (runways, airspace, ramps) more than economics that come and go with the economy. It's quite amazing how much money flows through this place and the cycle of business in no way resembles the 121 world. In fact, following 9/11 our business skyrocketed.

Planes DO get parked in the corp world but I'd be willing to look at your evidence that the fractional business shares the same weaknesses.

Usually, when a Fortune 500 company feels the crunch of economy, the 1st thing to go is the flight department. The first stop that company makes is with the Frax to see if they can buy a few shares to save money.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I've been on with Continental Airlines since Nov of 2006 so I'm just about off probation. I'm getting sick of commuting and the whole 7 on/7 off sounds pretty appealing. That along with good pay, good equipment, and all the other great things I've heard of NJA.

So, would you leave a legacy carrier for NJA if it meant better QOL? Granted, there are a lot of things I love about CAL but commuting isn't one of them and I have 37 years left in this business provided I don't die between now and then.

Comments?

Good luck whatever decision you make honestly! Just my two cents I have left Continental twice in my 21 years. Thankfully both times on Company Offered Leave of Absences where I kept my seniority, no longevity loss or any penalties except service credit to our now frozen A fund.

Like you I got hired very young at CAL, (I was hired at 21 on 4-13-87) and I will retire number one. Both times when I left I took the COLA because it was being offered but I would have quit both times without the COLA . Both times I regretted my decision as I found out the grass wasn't any greener on the other side.


One question you need to get a good answer on. What is the Long Term Disability pay at Net Jets? You are young with a long career, a high percentage of pilots medical out, some temporarily and some permanently. If I lost my medical at today I make $75K tax free until 60. Our LTD is one of the worst so I hope it will get better in Contract 08. Obviously you wouldn't make that today on LTD but if you upgraded to CA (even reserve) in a few years and lost your medical you would get almost as much.

Either way good luck and make the decision based on the best factual information you can obtain. The hard part is nothing is constant in this business so even a decision based on sound information today doesn't mean the information will be the same in the years ahead.

Fraternally,

Jayson Baron
CAL EWR B756CA