Would you leave CAL for NJA?

[Patriot328]

What does a 2nd-3rd yr FO at NJA make with the various types of schedules? Being nearly off probation, you have to consider where you are at CAL and what your future holds against starting over at NJA at the very bottom of a seniority list. How long is it to upgrade at each place? Estimated pay over the next 5-10 yrs, whether you upgrade or not...

Not having to commute should be a big factor in deciding where to work. If I were well rooted in a NJA domicile and thought I would never move, I would give some serious consideration to applying there. My personal opinion, anyway...

 

[climbhappy]

i think it comes down to this: if you don't want to move your family, then the commute will do you in sooner or later. you'll want NJA because of the new deal.

 

[Mooneymite]

Who Knows

Tough call. Without a crystal ball, no one can tell you what to do. However, I'd definitely stick with CAL for a couple of reasons. First, I think the 121 world is at the bottom of a cycle. I don't think it'll get any worse. Second, there's a good chance that over your career, CAL pilots will negotiate some big improvements. Thirdly, NJA is about to enter into a deal that could tie them up for another 8.5 years. They could really get hammered by inflation. What you see, is all you'll be getting for about 10 years.

NetJets' QOL is good, but a 121 carrier can offer a lot of things that the NJA guys can NEVER have based on the kind of operation it is. You'll be cleaning planes, toting bags and flying into tiny little airports for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter how senior you get. You're never going to fly high time turn-arounds 12 days/month.

As far as commuting. Move to your base and give yourself the biggest increase in QOL imagineable. Do it while you and your family are young.

 

[jppt2000]

Tough call; true but not accurate

Tough call. Without a crystal ball, no one can tell you what to do. However, I'd definitely stick with CAL for a couple of reasons. First, I think the 121 world is at the bottom of a cycle. I don't think it'll get any worse. Second, there's a good chance that over your career, CAL pilots will negotiate some big improvements. Thirdly, NJA is about to enter into a deal that could tie them up for another 8.5 years. They could really get hammered by inflation. What you see, is all you'll be getting for about 10 years.

NetJets' QOL is good, but a 121 carrier can offer a lot of things that the NJA guys can NEVER have based on the kind of operation it is. You'll be cleaning planes, toting bags and flying into tiny little airports for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter how senior you get. You're never going to fly high time turn-arounds 12 days/month.

As far as commuting. Move to your base and give yourself the biggest increase in QOL imagineable. Do it while you and your family are young.

I guess I would ask myself what kind of flying do I want to do?
A very wise and senior NJA pilot once asked me, "Do you really want to fly the "big" rigs? if so, move on, you'll never be happy. He then put on a Jimmy Buffett CD over the plane's surround sound system as we waited for pax.

With any job there are parts of a job that are a chore.

We are responsible for cleaning planes, occasionallytoting bags, and flying into a variety (circling at night in weather) of airports.

Eight years ago, I left the excellent group of pilots at ASA, for another excellent group of aviators at EJA. Since then, I've been to every state in the union.
BTW they let us fly into those "big airplane" airports too.

Also, we have the ability to "tip" folks at those little airports to help us with those chores.

One last thing, our union. Best group of leaders
I have ever seen. QOL, benefits, future, pay and job security have all been vastly improved and secured because of their hard work.
Every retired ALPA/Airline pilot I have flown with are in awe of what's been accomplished here.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

I've been to every state in the union.

"I've been everywhere" by Johnny Cash...
I've been to 42 of the places mentioned in that song, and its been a little less than two years here. :beer:

 

[lookin4better]

Here is my 2 cents :

Whats important to you? If you can answer this then you should be fine.....and of course a crystal ball would be awesome.

QOL is huge in my book ( work rules and a decent pay check , and not commuting on your own dime and time to work )

so under the QOL umbrella, depending on where you live and other factors, I would go with NJ, but if you must fly wide bodies and cant live without it then CAL....but of course there are many variables.

my bottom line is QOL and anything that falls under it, I dont need a big plane , I want to live a hassel free life and get paid well for it, and I think NJ offers that at a better rate then most legacies....the 100 new bases and the ability to change them as YOU want is a HUGE QOL issue.

QOL is a big deal, living where you work is a wonderful thing! And you get paid well to do it

good luck !

 

[On Your Six]

Tough choice. CAL is a great airline and I have a few buddies who are there now. They are very happy with the movement and it offers great variety - longhaul or shorthaul.

I also have friends at NJA and they are happy as well. One flies the X and he is constantly busy on his tours - but he likes that type of flying. The others are on less-busy fleets and they really enjoy the wide variety of destinations/layovers and they enjoy flying top-of-the-line aircraft.

I think this comes down to QOL and how you define it. It is true that CAL limits itself for the time being in terms of pilot domiciles and that can be a problem. The last thing you want to do after a long trip is commute all the way back to the West Coast. If QOL means living where you want to live (hopefully with a low cost of living) and not worry too much about commuting pitfalls, then CAL may not be the best long-term option. If QOL refers to schedule, then both CAL and NJA offer different types of schedules that can accomodate you. I think many people don't consider the advantages of a 7/7 schedule - you can plan your life and you can get 3 weeks off in a row if you take a middle week off.

If you consider NJA, just keep in mind that it is a very different type of flying from 121 flying. If you need a lot of structure and you don't want to interface with customers, NJA may not be for you. If you like variety and you are willing to go that extra mile, NJA could be a right fit.

The nice thing is that you are still at the beginning of your CAL career, so, if you were to leave the money difference would be marginal vs. what you would make with the new TA at NJA. Now would be the time to make the move (if the TA passes) given that you would not be giving up too much cash.

I have friends who are happy at both places - not an easy choice to make. PM some of the longstanding NJA pilots on this board and ask them for advice and descriptions of what they like/dislike about NJA.

Good luck.

 

[FLYLOW22]

here here attention in the court

Since when do we violate Kit Darbys teachings that a major airline is the peak of the job ladder

Ever since it became apparent that Kit is an oportunistic blow hard that would sell his mother for a buck.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Tough call. Without a crystal ball, no one can tell you what to do. However, I'd definitely stick with CAL for a couple of reasons. First, I think the 121 world is at the bottom of a cycle. I don't think it'll get any worse. Second, there's a good chance that over your career, CAL pilots will negotiate some big improvements. Thirdly, NJA is about to enter into a deal that could tie them up for another 8.5 years. They could really get hammered by inflation. What you see, is all you'll be getting for about 10 years.

NetJets' QOL is good, but a 121 carrier can offer a lot of things that the NJA guys can NEVER have based on the kind of operation it is. You'll be cleaning planes, toting bags and flying into tiny little airports for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter how senior you get. You're never going to fly high time turn-arounds 12 days/month.

As far as commuting. Move to your base and give yourself the biggest increase in QOL imagineable. Do it while you and your family are young.

Yeah, it's tough.

Drove to work and preflighted the jet about 250 ft from where I parked. Sat around on standby with my flying partner yesterday at the FBO in a leather recliner. I drank green tea, ate company provided crewmeals... Chicken Cordon Bleu (sp?) and sliced filet (medium rare) while watching various sporting events and movies.

Enjoyed a great layover last night complete with Irish tunes and scenery. I couldn't understand a darned thing the guy with the mic was saying. Sounded like Brad Pitt's character in Snatch. Pure awesomeness.

Today... preflighted the jet. Repeat for 6 hours only changing the meals slightly. Bad Boys 2 is on the big screen. Flight later this afternoon.

All that and I expect to make 155K-185K next year depending on what schedule I will bid. Not bad and FAR better than average.

I will never go back to a major if I have the choice. I would leave aviation first.

Now, for a F/O starting out... if the TA passes... I still think this is a better deal. QOL is FAR better than 121. F/Os make somewhere arounf 68% of what Captains make here so earning potential is not bad in the right seat.

100% paid medical.

50% match on 401K up to the federal limit. ROTH 401K option too.

No commute. No sleeping in crew rooms on a hard floor while listening to the sounds of two random crewmembers sneaking a quickie on the couch around the corner.

Hiltons, Marriotts, Crowne Plazas and Hyatts for hotels (with the occasional Holiday Inn type hotel in smaller markets).

Crew food.

TSA exposure usually only 2wice per tour.

The ONLY thing I see 121 offering now is a diferent crew dynamic. I can do without that.

A couple of other things to consider that are way bigger than the type of flying we do.

1) We have the financial backing of Berk Hath (Warren Buffett) here. They print their own money...

2) Our CEO MADE this business. He loves it. I far more enjoy having him at the helm than some trust fund reject that made Cs and Ds at the Wharton School of Business.

3) We will not park airplanes as the price of oil climbs. Our Owners will fly regardless.

 

[charley varrick]

All that and I expect to make 155K-185K next year depending on what schedule I will bid. Not bad and FAR better than average.

I would like to see that math. If you have an insider trade secret method of making those dollars with a 126K base on the proposed 18-day schedule, do your union brothers and sisters a favor and lay it on us.

Looks to me like you plan on doing some fly-too-low drug runs on the side! Or perhaps selling all those surplus L5as to starving first-year CAL FOs.