Would you leave CAL for NJA?

[lookin4better]

1) We have the financial backing of Berk Hath (Warren Buffett) here. They print their own money...

2) Our CEO MADE this business. He loves it. I far more enjoy having him at the helm than some trust fund reject that made Cs and Ds at the Wharton School of Business.

3) We will not park airplanes as the price of oil climbs. Our Owners will fly regardless.

These are HUGE points!

 

[asayankee]

When is the decision on the TA supposed to be announced?

 

[VVJM265]

Don't come to NetJets...

I haven't posted much on here lately but have been meaning to say this for a while. Don't come here...

- If you aren't willing to load the bags in the jet;
- If you aren't willing to spend a few minutes briefing the pax with a smile on your face and going the extra step to make sure they are comfortable (like helping the old lady get her seatbelt fastened, making sure they have they have a blanket, etc);
- If you aren't willing to clean up the cabin after the pax leave after each flight; it only takes about 10 min on a BAD day (that was a family w/ two kids who trashed the plane);
- If you aren't willing to make sure the plane is stocked and cleaned before every flight or before you turn it over to the next crew;
- If you aren't willing to do the Jepps updates every other week or whatever the cycle is;
- If your ego is dependent on the size of your aircraft;
- If you don't want every day to be different;
- If you don't want to fly into uncontrolled airfields;
etc, etc, etc.

The point is that at NetJets you will be a customer service rep, who happens to also fly the airplane. If you are willing to make that little extra effort and want some real job security and some of the best flying out there, then by all means come here.

You will meet some great people, like Flylow22. Every week is different and you never know where they will send you; for example the week 22 & I flew together we sat at the FBO somewhere in TX day 1 while we watched his collection of DVDs on the 70" TV; next day flew empty to Sedona, picked up 4 golfers and took them to Modesto, then empty to LAS and met up with his AirTran buddies for beer; LAS-SJC-TUS-SFO the next day; day 4 was SFO-SMO and then my poor PIC got sick so they put us up in the Sheraton 4 blocks from the beach in Santa Monica. Man that sucked. And so the week went... One week I was able to see my parents, brother, sister and daughter all within two days. Another week, I had dinner with my cousins I hadn't seen in 2 yrs. Last week flew empty to Cabo to pick up 3 pax and take them to Brown Field in San Diego.

The new TA hasn't passed yet, but it looks good and is expected to pass. It will make NetJets a very attractive career option, one of the best, IMO. If anyone is planning on leaving the majors to come here, please do your homework. There are some things that are different from the 121 world like I described above. This is my first civilan flying job and I plan on staying here till the end of my flying days. I truly hope hope that anyone who comes here is as happy as I am.

Now back to the big screen TV while the puzzle palace tries to figure out where to send us today.

Best of luck to the original poster in your decision...
VVJM265
:beer:

 

[VVJM265]

Don't come to NetJets...

duplicate

 

[johnsonrod]

I haven't posted much on here lately but have been meaning to say this for a while. Don't come here...

- If you aren't willing to load the bags in the jet;
- If you aren't willing to spend a few minutes briefing the pax with a smile on your face and going the extra step to make sure they are comfortable (like helping the old lady get her seatbelt fastened, making sure they have they have a blanket, etc);
- If you aren't willing to clean up the cabin after the pax leave after each flight; it only takes about 10 min on a BAD day (that was a family w/ two kids who trashed the plane);
- If you aren't willing to make sure the plane is stocked and cleaned before every flight or before you turn it over to the next crew;
- If you aren't willing to do the Jepps updates every other week or whatever the cycle is;
- If your ego is dependent on the size of your aircraft;
- If you don't want every day to be different;
- If you don't want to fly into uncontrolled airfields;
etc, etc, etc.

The point is that at NetJets you will be a customer service rep, who happens to also fly the airplane. If you are willing to make that little extra effort and want some real job security and some of the best flying out there, then by all means come here.

You will meet some great people, like Flylow22. Every week is different and you never know where they will send you; for example the week 22 & I flew together we sat at the FBO somewhere in TX day 1 while we watched his collection of DVDs on the 70" TV; next day flew empty to Sedona, picked up 4 golfers and took them to Modesto, then empty to LAS and met up with his AirTran buddies for beer; LAS-SJC-TUS-SFO the next day; day 4 was SFO-SMO and then my poor PIC got sick so they put us up in the Sheraton 4 blocks from the beach in Santa Monica. Man that sucked. And so the week went... One week I was able to see my parents, brother, sister and daughter all within two days. Another week, I had dinner with my cousins I hadn't seen in 2 yrs. Last week flew empty to Cabo to pick up 3 pax and take them to Brown Field in San Diego.

The new TA hasn't passed yet, but it looks good and is expected to pass. It will make NetJets a very attractive career option, one of the best, IMO. If anyone is planning on leaving the majors to come here, please do your homework. There are some things that are different from the 121 world like I described above. This is my first civilan flying job and I plan on staying here till the end of my flying days. I truly hope hope that anyone who comes here is as happy as I am.

Now back to the big screen TV while the puzzle palace tries to figure out where to send us today.

Best of luck to the original poster in your decision...
VVJM265
:beer:

Great post. And it dispells the theory that all fractional pilots are super busy during their tours. Clearly your fleet type can make a big difference. If you fly the Citation X or XL/XLS you may be very busy. If you fly the Encore/Ultra or Beechjet you may not fly much at all but you are still paid well. Fleet type matters.

Fractional flying may not be for everyone - flexibility is a requirement. But NJA's new TA will certainly attract a lot of attention if it passes soon... Apply now before the onslaught of applications begins.

 

[NJA Capt]

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

In the 10 years I have been here, there have been two market downturns, the dot-com crash and 9/11. No furloughs, no layoffs and no planes sold. Customers, pilots and planes have kept coming. I am not saying we are immune, but so far it hasn't affected the frac world the same as full-corporate departments or airlines.

Regardless of airline opinions, there is a large contingent of "A-list" pax who will NEVER ride on an airliner. That list is much larger than you think.

 

[Guitar Guy]

When is the decision on the TA supposed to be announced?

The vote count is November 20 - a week from this coming Tuesday.

 

[LJDRVR]

Stick with CAL. More money over the course of your career, and more options for lifestyle. I'm in the same boat as you are seniority-wise and yes, they work us like dogs. But things are getting better all the time, Section six starts in April, we're on track to make a Billion dollars this year and have three Billion in the bank.

Netjets is a great company, but for my personal tastes, I like my airline standardization, and having control over my schedule and life. I know where I'm going next and I'll never have to sit around and FBO waiting on people again.

Read On You Six's post. Excellent advice there.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

Actually, we have a waiting list for Owners. This company is limited by infrastructure (runways, airspace, ramps) more than economics that come and go with the economy. It's quite amazing how much money flows through this place and the cycle of business in no way resembles the 121 world. In fact, following 9/11 our business skyrocketed.

Planes DO get parked in the corp world but I'd be willing to look at your evidence that the fractional business shares the same weaknesses.

Usually, when a Fortune 500 company feels the crunch of economy, the 1st thing to go is the flight department. The first stop that company makes is with the Frax to see if they can buy a few shares to save money.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I've been on with Continental Airlines since Nov of 2006 so I'm just about off probation. I'm getting sick of commuting and the whole 7 on/7 off sounds pretty appealing. That along with good pay, good equipment, and all the other great things I've heard of NJA.

So, would you leave a legacy carrier for NJA if it meant better QOL? Granted, there are a lot of things I love about CAL but commuting isn't one of them and I have 37 years left in this business provided I don't die between now and then.

Comments?

Good luck whatever decision you make honestly! Just my two cents I have left Continental twice in my 21 years. Thankfully both times on Company Offered Leave of Absences where I kept my seniority, no longevity loss or any penalties except service credit to our now frozen A fund.

Like you I got hired very young at CAL, (I was hired at 21 on 4-13-87) and I will retire number one. Both times when I left I took the COLA because it was being offered but I would have quit both times without the COLA . Both times I regretted my decision as I found out the grass wasn't any greener on the other side.


One question you need to get a good answer on. What is the Long Term Disability pay at Net Jets? You are young with a long career, a high percentage of pilots medical out, some temporarily and some permanently. If I lost my medical at today I make $75K tax free until 60. Our LTD is one of the worst so I hope it will get better in Contract 08. Obviously you wouldn't make that today on LTD but if you upgraded to CA (even reserve) in a few years and lost your medical you would get almost as much.

Either way good luck and make the decision based on the best factual information you can obtain. The hard part is nothing is constant in this business so even a decision based on sound information today doesn't mean the information will be the same in the years ahead.

Fraternally,

Jayson Baron
CAL EWR B756CA

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Yeah, it's tough.

Drove to work and preflighted the jet about 250 ft from where I parked. Sat around on standby with my flying partner yesterday at the FBO in a leather recliner. I drank green tea, ate company provided crewmeals... Chicken Cordon Bleu (sp?) and sliced filet (medium rare) while watching various sporting events and movies.

Enjoyed a great layover last night complete with Irish tunes and scenery. I couldn't understand a darned thing the guy with the mic was saying. Sounded like Brad Pitt's character in Snatch. Pure awesomeness.

Today... preflighted the jet. Repeat for 6 hours only changing the meals slightly. Bad Boys 2 is on the big screen. Flight later this afternoon.

All that and I expect to make 155K-185K next year depending on what schedule I will bid. Not bad and FAR better than average.

I will never go back to a major if I have the choice. I would leave aviation first.

Now, for a F/O starting out... if the TA passes... I still think this is a better deal. QOL is FAR better than 121. F/Os make somewhere arounf 68% of what Captains make here so earning potential is not bad in the right seat.

100% paid medical.

50% match on 401K up to the federal limit. ROTH 401K option too.

No commute. No sleeping in crew rooms on a hard floor while listening to the sounds of two random crewmembers sneaking a quickie on the couch around the corner.

Hiltons, Marriotts, Crowne Plazas and Hyatts for hotels (with the occasional Holiday Inn type hotel in smaller markets).

Crew food.

TSA exposure usually only 2wice per tour.

The ONLY thing I see 121 offering now is a diferent crew dynamic. I can do without that.

A couple of other things to consider that are way bigger than the type of flying we do.

1) We have the financial backing of Berk Hath (Warren Buffett) here. They print their own money...

2) Our CEO MADE this business. He loves it. I far more enjoy having him at the helm than some trust fund reject that made Cs and Ds at the Wharton School of Business.

3) We will not park airplanes as the price of oil climbs. Our Owners will fly regardless.

Honest question no flame. What is your LTD situation? IF you medical out tomorrow and never fly again how much will you get and for how long? How many pilots at Net Jets have medical'd out?

 

[johnsonrod]

Planes do get parked in the corporate and frac. world, and then the folks head back to the cheaper seat airlines. When times get hard, both business jets and airliners get parked and or sold!

Mergers happen in the airline world. Pilots do get furloughed and marginalized.

Airlines expect pilots to bend over backwards for a job and therefore provide them with pi$$-poor pay and benefits to start (CAL's starting salary/benefits package is a complete joke and shows tremendous disrespect for pilots in general). Exploitation is nothing new in the airline business. Meanwhile, Netjets' new TA should set a high standard for newhires in any aviation company. 100% coverage of health insurance for the entire family is a great example - that's rare.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Netjets is a great company, but for my personal tastes, I like my airline standardization, and having control over my schedule and life. I know where I'm going next and I'll never have to sit around and FBO waiting on people again.

And none here will tell you that this career is for everyone. As far as the above points...

"Airlne Standardization"
We train like an airline with the same recurrent/intial training scenarios and frequencies. SICs actually train more than 121 SICs, attending a no-risk sim recurrent every other 6 months opposite their PC. We use SOPs and we have standard cockpits/checklists.

"Control" over schedule and life.
Any pilot on the 7n7 knows his/her schedule years in advance. I can plan the next 16 dentist visits if/when this TA passes if I choose to. I can't imagine any more control.

Where to go? All the darn waiting!
Who cares. The pay is the same and if you go international, customs is a pain. We get paid the same for sitting on recliner duty in front of a 70" plasma drinking coffee, sufing the web and snoozing as flying we do flying an ILS to mins at Belmar, NJ.

As soon as I got the whole "Ok. I'll be in LAX for an overnight on the 28th and I will block in at 1832L for a 20+56 overnight and I will stay at the crew hotel." outta my mind, NJA flying became much more relaxing.

I pack for anything from Barbabdos to Bermuda... who cares. I have to be somewhere for 7 days, why not wherever. It's not 7 hard days of flying either. Day 1 and 7 are spent travelling (usually). The other 5 can be any type of flying; short hops, transcons, red eyes, international, GA airports, PHL, military, a trip to Cuba... anything.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I haven't posted much on here lately but have been meaning to say this for a while. Don't come here...

- If you aren't willing to load the bags in the jet;
-
:beer:

Honest question what is the situation on loading bags?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Honest question no flame. What is your LTD situation? IF you medical out tomorrow and never fly again how much will you get and for how long? How many pilots at Net Jets have medical'd out?

There have been medical cases resulting in STD/LTD here at NJA.

In general, there is STD and LTD as well as a sick bank to exhaust. There is also loss of license insurance offered in the benefits package.

STD and LTD provide 60% of your base wage. Our base wage is a salary, resembling guarantee pay.

I'm not sure of the duration of LTD so I looked it up in the CBA. Maybe someone else knows??

The same language is in the TA except the loss of license pay out was increased to 3 years from 2.

24.6 Disability Salary Continuation, Long Term Disability Insurance, Loss of Medical
Certificate Disability Benefit and Aero-Medical Benefits​

All Crewmembers covered under this Agreement shall be entitled to a salary continuation
benefit if the pilot becomes disabled within the meaning of the salary continuation plan
document. Crewmembers who are notified of LTD eligibility are required to immediately file an
LTD claim according to the procedures outlined in the appropriate plan documents. Failure to do so
may result in postponement of benefits.
The salary continuation benefit equals sixty (60) percent of a pilot’s base salary on the date of
disability (subject to increases the pilot would have received but for the disability) and shall
continue for one hundred and eighty (180) days from date of disability. A pilot may elect to use
paid sick days for any portion of the benefit period, provided those days a pilot elects to use a
paid sick day shall be charged against the one hundred and eighty day (180) benefit period.​

All Crewmembers covered under this Agreement shall receive long-term disability benefits
equal to the lesser of sixty (60) percent of a pilot’s base salary (subject to any increases in
salary the pilot would have received but for the disability) or five thousand ($5,000) dollars per
month beginning the one hundred and eighty-first (181st) day of disability in accordance with the
terms and conditions of the Company’s regular and loss of medical long term disability plan
documents.​

Subject to the qualification requirements of the Company’s loss of medical disability benefit,
pilots shall receive a two (2) year loss of medical certificate insurance benefit equal to the lesser
of sixty (60) percent of a pilot’s base salary (subject to any increases the pilot would have
received but for the disability) or five thousand ($5,000.00) dollars per month beginning on the
one hundred and eighty first (181st) day of disability. For purposes of the loss of medical
disability benefit, the definition of disability shall include disqualifying conditions set forth in
FAR Part 67.
Should a disability qualify for benefits payable under either the regular or loss of medical
disability plans, or both plans concurrently, the aggregate benefit may not exceed sixty (60)
percent of the pilot’s base monthly salary or $5000.00 per month from both sources.​