Would you leave a good regional for NetJets?

[kman]

What's current upgrade @ SWA? Who cares when frax right seat pays better and QOL is better than regional left seat.

It's better to be a prince in heaven than a king in hell.

u might change ur mind when u bust ur azz as an fo for 5 yrs. coming up on yea 3 real quick and i care a he!! of a lot. Oh, by the way SWA can make over 100k pretty easy at yrs 2 and 3 as an fo, until we get to that level we should all care, which by the way we deserve for the workload and & 7 day trips.

 

[Mach92]

What is the current upgrade time at NJ.

100% No BS if I had to guess 5-7 years if you walk on today. Could be less but I would plan on that. The quick upgrade days are gone everywhere.

SWA 10+
Delta 10+
UA 10+

Age 65 did it in. NetJets will continue to grow but at some point we will hit the wall. RTS has said over and over we will only get so big then thats it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

100% No BS if I had to guess 5-7 years if you walk on today. Could be less but I would plan on that. The quick upgrade days are gone everywhere.

SWA 10+
Delta 10+
UA 10+

Age 65 did it in. NetJets will continue to grow but at some point we will hit the wall. RTS has said over and over we will only get so big then thats it.

And right now the training infrastructure is being vamped and overhauled to handle over 7000 pilots.

We have 2,700 + 300 or so NJIers. There is room to grow here.

 

[CALRepublic]

And right now the training infrastructure is being vamped and overhauled to handle over 7000 pilots.

We have 2,700 + 300 or so NJIers. There is room to grow here.

I heard the growth would stop at 5000. Not disagreeing, just what I heard.

As far as all this- would you leave this for that, and that for this BullS***, I would never, ever leave NJ for a US major. after December 7th, 2008, leaving NJ for CO, UA or SW would be a lateral move/ a side step in my opinion.

 

[Fozzy]

What is the current upgrade time at NJ.

I was going to say 5-6 years. 7 years? Could be. We shall see how the upgrades go in the next few months. I think we are a little fat on Captains, but that is my opinion. It will be interesting to see how the numbers shake out once scheduling gets their wish with the flush bid in June.

 

[gr8dane]

What kind of pay do you get during training? How long is the training evolution?

 

[theskyking]

You get the 18 day first year pay rate which I believe is around $69000. Per diem at $1.60 and paid for health insurance starts when you step on the property.

Initial ground is around 2 weeks and sim is dependent on which airplane you are on, between 2 and 3 weeks. There could be a break between ground and sim depending on the slots available at FSI. After that, a few bounces in the plane with an instructor when they can get it scheduled then IOE.

 

[gr8dane]

Thanks Skyking. Sounds like a sweet deal. OO was a good stepping stone. Sounds like NJ is a great final stop.

 

[NachoMamma]

real quick and i care a he!! of a lot. Oh, by the way SWA can make over 100k pretty easy at yrs 2 and 3 as an fo, until we get to that level we should all care...

We will...just give it time. I'd say that in the next five years, we'll see salaries very similar to (if not higher than) SW.

 

[On Your Six]

With upgrade times estimated in the 6-7 year range for newhires, what is the seat lock situation for FOs? I assume that some FOs will want to bid a different aircraft after a few years (perhaps for variety sake - maybe bid a GIV or Falcon 2000 FO seat) even if they can't upgrade at that time. I think waiting 6-7 years in the right seat of a Beechjet or Ultra/Encore might get tiresome (even though those fleets aren't very busy) - but that's just me.

Is that common right now? Are FOs jumping from one fleet to another given that upgrade times are a bit longer now than in the past? What's the typical waiting time if that happens - after the first 2 years? What's the seat-lock policy?

 

[Twotter76]

Yup we are starting to see this now whereas historically SICs did not change seats because they would usually upgrade in less than 2 years. I just switched airplanes myself and there were two others in class with me doing the same thing. Looks like all the DA2000 SIC slots will be taken by guys that are already on property for the time being, lots of people with standing bids for that seat. Anytime you switch fleets you get a 39 month seat lock, however it will not restrict you from an upgrade if you are an SIC, the lock just goes with you.

 

[Guitar Guy]

...Per diem at $1.60...

Per diem is $1.70 per hour and has been so far a number of years.

...sim is dependent on which airplane you are on, between 2 and 3 weeks. There could be a break between ground and sim depending on the slots available at FSI. After that, a few bounces in the plane with an instructor when they can get it scheduled then IOE.

The length of the type training is dependent on the aircraft in question. The shortest type course is the Ultra at 17 days but the X and Falcon and planes of that complexity run over 3 weeks. The goal with all of the fleets is to have a one-day classroom session followed by 2 LOFT sessions. If that occurs, the intent is to send new-hires directly to IOE with the exception of a fleet like the X that does get a fam flight to get used to that plane's landing characteristics.

 

[kman]

We will...just give it time. I'd say that in the next five years, we'll see salaries very similar to (if not higher than) SW.

I sure hope so. Also, we need to get the senior guys a couple of more weeks of vacation after year ten or s sweat schd like 5 on 7 off.

 

[CA1900]

With upgrade times estimated in the 6-7 year range for newhires, what is the seat lock situation for FOs? I assume that some FOs will want to bid a different aircraft after a few years (perhaps for variety sake - maybe bid a GIV or Falcon 2000 FO seat) even if they can't upgrade at that time.

You're free to bid another aircraft as an FO after a 39-month equipment lock from date-of-hire. Making that move will incur a new 39-month equipment lock, but (this is a change in our new contract), you will not be locked out of upgrading if it comes up during that second seat lock. If you get an upgrade bid in a different airplane at that point, whatever's left of that 39-month lock will simply be added to your first captain's equipment lock.

So yeah, if you're a Beechjet SIC and want to try out a G200, you absolutely can do that.

Is that common right now? Are FOs jumping from one fleet to another given that upgrade times are a bit longer now than in the past?

Right now, not so much, but that will probably change a couple years down the road when folks looking at longer upgrade times come to that point.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Right now, not so much, but that will probably change a couple years down the road when folks looking at longer upgrade times come to that point.

I just observed the pre-LOFT classroom day of a group of SIC's in the X. Half of the class were transitions from other fleets.

It looks like it's already starting to happen, particularly for SIC's in the non-APU planes and for SIC's who will likely want a Falcon or G-200 to perhaps see more international flying or to have a FA (in the case of the Falcon).