Would Jesus go to Church?

[Timebuilder]

jbDC9:

I feel for ya. As to what a Bhuddist might say, I gotta tell you, bro, it isn't at the top of my "worry" list.

Timbuilders arguments are why I so intensely dislike bible thumping, born again christians. "My religion is the only religion, mine can beat up yours, you're going to hell because you haven't been saved, etc." Narrow minded with blinders on, can't see anything else but their beloved bible, which they love to quote from so much.

I think you are right, without even knowing why. God is VERY "narrow minded" when it comes to us, His creation. He even talked about it:

"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.'

As for "crap", I'm sure you'll make sure there is plenty of that.

If you are right in the basis of your violent dislike of a thread that you weren't forced to take part in, then I have nothing to lose.

If, however, the Bible is right, then you have a problem.

 

[dash8driver]

I really should leave this thread alone, but it's kinda fascinating to watch, waiting to see what "holier than thou" gems are spouted off next. I suspect a lot of the readers of this thread are in the same boat; not looking to be preached to or educated, just want to see what crap comes up next.

shhhh!!! dont say that, they might figure it out and ruin the fun...

 

[dash8driver]

oh yea.. forgot about that detriment comment. how is it to their detriment. i'm sure many people have come into other religions that has improved their lives and made them much happier and better people for it.

speaking of which.. i have another question for TB. what happens to these people that are of other religions when they die? do they go to hell for not being christian?

 

[Timebuilder]

shhhh!!! dont say that, they might figure it out and ruin the fun...

I agree. These guys don't even realize that they are learning.

Don't blow it for them...

 

[Timebuilder]

oh yea.. forgot about that detriment comment. how is it to their detriment.

Because Christ teaches that He is the only way to eternal life.

So what about those "others?"

He also says that we should "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."

So, apparently, Christ considers the spreading of this knowledge to everyone to be important. Very important.

What will happen to them otherwise? Well, since following Christ is the way to salvation, then a lack of salvation must be the result for those not following Christ.

That sounds like a less favorable result, doesn't it?

 

[dash8driver]

jbDC9:

If, however, the Bible is right, then you have a problem.

what do you mean IF? i thought you werent capable of objectivity. or are you having 2nd thoughts.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm speaking in "human" terms, those used in the logic and thought of the non-believer, which is the audience being addressed.

To the non-believer, I often stress the idea that only one of us could be right: the Bible, or Man.

 

[dash8driver]

Because Christ teaches that He is the only way to eternal life.

So what about those "others?"

He also says that we should "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."

So, apparently, Christ considers the spreading of this knowelege to everyone to be important. Very important.

What will happen to them otherwise? Well, since following Christ is the way to salvation, then a lack of salvation must be the result for those not following Christ.

That sounds to me like a less favorable result, doesn't it?

so that means that people at the far reaches of the planet, who never even heard of christianity are going to hell by default. even though they havent had a chance to convert yet? that doesnt sound very fair to me.

oh and please straighten out the part about what wms said that jesus isnt god. thanks

 

[dash8driver]

I'm speaking in "human" terms, those used in the logic and thought of the non-believer, which is the audience being addressed.

To the non-believer, I often stress the idea that only one of us could be right: the Bible, or Man.

i see.. by your other posts it looks like you wouldnt do something like that. to give the notion that there is another possibility besides the bible being right. you have even stated that point before.

 

[Timebuilder]

so that means that people at the far reaches of the planet, who never even heard of christianity are going to hell by default.

The provisons made for those who have not heard the Word are not my worry. God provides well, so I can only surmise He has made provision for those who have not or cannot, "hear." What we do know is that we are to spread the word to as many as possible so they have the opportunity to accept the gift. Anything else would have to be considered "second best."


I'm not sure what wms post you are referring to, but Christ is God the Son.

 

[Timebuilder]

to give the notion that there is another possibility besides the bible being right.

While a believer knows there is no possibility of the Bible being "wrong," he also knows that a non-believer has no such assurance. Yet.

 

[dash8driver]

The provisons made for those who have not heard the Word are not my worry.

so you're worried about those that heard the word but not worried about those that havent?

anyway, my line wasnt to determine what you're worried about or not. it was to ask you to inform me on these subjects since you seem to be knowledgable on the topic. i merely ask questions which i dont know the answer to, giving you the opportunity to preach/teach/inform whatever you want to call it.

 

[dash8driver]

which brings up another question, if you dont mind.

cocacola, mcdonalds and other corporations have figured out that they cant just take their product and place it into another culture for consumption. they learned that they cant take their product or advertising models and apply it to all cultures. there are modifications that must be made to the advertisement to appeal to foriegn cultures. they must take into account not only the differences in cultures, but in language as well.

would it be possible that god might have figured this out too? that he understands that whats important is that people get the MESSAGE...the big picture. that he has taylored his message in ways that will be accepted by the various cultures. would it be possible that whats more important to him is the underlying message, etc.. and not so much in the dogmatic. how important is dogma compared to the desired result of it all? this might be why most of the religions basic framework is pretty similiar. there is a god, a lot of times there are wise men/messengers/messiahs/prophets/etc. and they all teach the same basic ideals...to love one another, etc...

i know i'm completely wrong, but i just thought i'd throw it out there for you.

 

[redd]

why can't we all just get along?-R King

Three of planet earth’s largest religions all have a root in the same core.

Muslims, Jews, and all Christ based religions all share in Abraham being an early central figure. From there, they depart and go their separate ways.

Why can’t we all rally around what we can agree upon rather than what we do not?

When people universally are interested in spirituality, and in having a higher authority other than themselves as the center of their lives, it enriches everyone, and makes most everyone be better people as they connect with that aspect of life.

It is good to acknowledge spirituality in ones life, and each man determines himself how much he allows it to reign in his own life, but that is also part of the big plan of freedom of will. It is each person’s inherent right (as it should be) to determine that for themselves, and won’t it ultimately be God’s job to do the judging in that department? It is definitely beyond my paygrade to be deciding those kinds of outcomes.

Doesn’t the bible say, it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance?

It says goodness, not being offending, not arguing, not pride or arrogance, not endless debates, not baiting each other, or pissing contests, or beating someone over the head with “the truth”.

 

[Timebuilder]

so you're worried about those that heard the word but not worried about those that havent?

Well, I don't need to "worry" about those who I cannot reach, either on my own or through missions.

My church supports missions to all kinds of remote, native peoples, along with Chinese peasants and Chinese ethnic minorities and more modern people the world over. My "worry" is that we are not working at maximum capacity, which keeps us working harder on this in order to do a better job. You can never rest on your laurels when the work is so important.

The people who will not hear the word are covered by God's provision because it is in His character for Him to do so. So, my mandate as a believer is to do the best I can, wherever I can, and commend the others who remain to God's care.

Sometimes I don't know the answer to a question. Super 80 often does a far better job with the smaller points. I try to keep it simple.

would it be possible that god might have figured this out too?

Not in the way you are thinking.

We always mold the Word to the cultures we reach. We translate into native tongues, use similar music themes instead of the hymns you'd hear in an English speaking country, and work hard to maintain the truth while communicating the message. Sometimes, the native people insist on learning the same exact way that we know the Bible, and work on learning English so they can join in the reading on our basis, singing our songs and reading a Bible written in English. This isn't the case most of the time, but it does happen. The Chinese are big on this, since they have studied English for many years since they were small.

this might be why most of the religions basic framework is pretty similiar. there is a god, a lot of times there are wise men/messengers/messiahs/prophets/etc. and they all teach the same basic ideals...to love one another, etc...

That's exactly what I believed before I trusted Christ. After all, it sounded good to me, so why not?

The truth is that Christ, God the Son, wanted us to take His message to the world. If He wanted some other method of delivering His message to be used, or trusted as correct and complete, then He had every opportunity to suggest just that idea to His disciples.

As we know from the Bible, He not only commanded that His mesage be delivered, but He also counciled against false prophets and teachings, and gave no exceptions to the veracity of this command that His way was the only way.

It sure would be a lot easier if He had said something else, but it isn't up to us.

 

[Timebuilder]

Why can’t we all rally around what we can agree upon rather than what we do not?

The short answer is that God does not see all beliefs as being "equivalent."

Doesn’t the bible say, it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance?

It is the goodness of God that is shown in the sacrifice He made for us, and the fulfillment of the command to spread that word is our obedience to His goodness.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Didja ever stop to think that maybe Buddists or Muslims or whatever other religions out there might be "The" religion and you goofy christians are the ones who have it all wrong??

An excellent question...one that most Christians don't have an answer for. Believe it or not, there is one Christian on this board who is open minded about the relative worth of the various "name-brand" religions. Unfortunately, I forgot who it is...

As for "crap", I'm sure you'll make sure there is plenty of that.

I would expect a comment like this from someone like...well, me. It was beneath you, TB...really out of character. What's wrong?

 

[USMCAirWinger]

This thread is total crap...and dont tell me that if I don't like it don't read it. Religion should stay as private as your sexuality...If TimeBuilder was a -homo- I would not like to know nor would I want to be preached on the wonders of being a pole smoker just because you practice it and believe its right. I tried to stay away from all this religion shiznitz but this is getting out of control.

Peace

 

[Timebuilder]

There are certain expressions that are still a part of me from my academy days. Not out of character, since I have been forgiven, not made "perfect." I'm still a sinner. That does not change.

He observed that he thought there was a lot of "crap," and I was observing that I thought he might take steps to ensure that he was right. Beleive me, the "old" me might have responded far more vigorously than a stray word. I still don't understand what brings out such extreme reactions from some members.

Back to the first comment. Only the non-believer thinks that there is some reason to be uncertain about the truth of the Bible. As a believer, it is true. As a non-believer, he has doubts. It isn't a matter of "name brand" religion. Christ spoke against religion. What He wants for us is to see us follow His word, according to His scripture. He said it. If you follow Him, that's a good enough reason to adhere to what He taught us.

As He said, "If it were not so, I would have told you."

 

[Timebuilder]

Religion should stay as private as your sexuality..

According to Jesus, His teaching should not be hidden.