Would Jesus go to Church?

[Timebuilder]

to give the notion that there is another possibility besides the bible being right.

While a believer knows there is no possibility of the Bible being "wrong," he also knows that a non-believer has no such assurance. Yet.

 

[dash8driver]

The provisons made for those who have not heard the Word are not my worry.

so you're worried about those that heard the word but not worried about those that havent?

anyway, my line wasnt to determine what you're worried about or not. it was to ask you to inform me on these subjects since you seem to be knowledgable on the topic. i merely ask questions which i dont know the answer to, giving you the opportunity to preach/teach/inform whatever you want to call it.

 

[dash8driver]

which brings up another question, if you dont mind.

cocacola, mcdonalds and other corporations have figured out that they cant just take their product and place it into another culture for consumption. they learned that they cant take their product or advertising models and apply it to all cultures. there are modifications that must be made to the advertisement to appeal to foriegn cultures. they must take into account not only the differences in cultures, but in language as well.

would it be possible that god might have figured this out too? that he understands that whats important is that people get the MESSAGE...the big picture. that he has taylored his message in ways that will be accepted by the various cultures. would it be possible that whats more important to him is the underlying message, etc.. and not so much in the dogmatic. how important is dogma compared to the desired result of it all? this might be why most of the religions basic framework is pretty similiar. there is a god, a lot of times there are wise men/messengers/messiahs/prophets/etc. and they all teach the same basic ideals...to love one another, etc...

i know i'm completely wrong, but i just thought i'd throw it out there for you.

 

[redd]

why can't we all just get along?-R King

Three of planet earth’s largest religions all have a root in the same core.

Muslims, Jews, and all Christ based religions all share in Abraham being an early central figure. From there, they depart and go their separate ways.

Why can’t we all rally around what we can agree upon rather than what we do not?

When people universally are interested in spirituality, and in having a higher authority other than themselves as the center of their lives, it enriches everyone, and makes most everyone be better people as they connect with that aspect of life.

It is good to acknowledge spirituality in ones life, and each man determines himself how much he allows it to reign in his own life, but that is also part of the big plan of freedom of will. It is each person’s inherent right (as it should be) to determine that for themselves, and won’t it ultimately be God’s job to do the judging in that department? It is definitely beyond my paygrade to be deciding those kinds of outcomes.

Doesn’t the bible say, it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance?

It says goodness, not being offending, not arguing, not pride or arrogance, not endless debates, not baiting each other, or pissing contests, or beating someone over the head with “the truth”.

 

[Timebuilder]

so you're worried about those that heard the word but not worried about those that havent?

Well, I don't need to "worry" about those who I cannot reach, either on my own or through missions.

My church supports missions to all kinds of remote, native peoples, along with Chinese peasants and Chinese ethnic minorities and more modern people the world over. My "worry" is that we are not working at maximum capacity, which keeps us working harder on this in order to do a better job. You can never rest on your laurels when the work is so important.

The people who will not hear the word are covered by God's provision because it is in His character for Him to do so. So, my mandate as a believer is to do the best I can, wherever I can, and commend the others who remain to God's care.

Sometimes I don't know the answer to a question. Super 80 often does a far better job with the smaller points. I try to keep it simple.

would it be possible that god might have figured this out too?

Not in the way you are thinking.

We always mold the Word to the cultures we reach. We translate into native tongues, use similar music themes instead of the hymns you'd hear in an English speaking country, and work hard to maintain the truth while communicating the message. Sometimes, the native people insist on learning the same exact way that we know the Bible, and work on learning English so they can join in the reading on our basis, singing our songs and reading a Bible written in English. This isn't the case most of the time, but it does happen. The Chinese are big on this, since they have studied English for many years since they were small.

this might be why most of the religions basic framework is pretty similiar. there is a god, a lot of times there are wise men/messengers/messiahs/prophets/etc. and they all teach the same basic ideals...to love one another, etc...

That's exactly what I believed before I trusted Christ. After all, it sounded good to me, so why not?

The truth is that Christ, God the Son, wanted us to take His message to the world. If He wanted some other method of delivering His message to be used, or trusted as correct and complete, then He had every opportunity to suggest just that idea to His disciples.

As we know from the Bible, He not only commanded that His mesage be delivered, but He also counciled against false prophets and teachings, and gave no exceptions to the veracity of this command that His way was the only way.

It sure would be a lot easier if He had said something else, but it isn't up to us.

 

[Timebuilder]

Why can’t we all rally around what we can agree upon rather than what we do not?

The short answer is that God does not see all beliefs as being "equivalent."

Doesn’t the bible say, it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance?

It is the goodness of God that is shown in the sacrifice He made for us, and the fulfillment of the command to spread that word is our obedience to His goodness.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Didja ever stop to think that maybe Buddists or Muslims or whatever other religions out there might be "The" religion and you goofy christians are the ones who have it all wrong??

An excellent question...one that most Christians don't have an answer for. Believe it or not, there is one Christian on this board who is open minded about the relative worth of the various "name-brand" religions. Unfortunately, I forgot who it is...

As for "crap", I'm sure you'll make sure there is plenty of that.

I would expect a comment like this from someone like...well, me. It was beneath you, TB...really out of character. What's wrong?

 

[USMCAirWinger]

This thread is total crap...and dont tell me that if I don't like it don't read it. Religion should stay as private as your sexuality...If TimeBuilder was a -homo- I would not like to know nor would I want to be preached on the wonders of being a pole smoker just because you practice it and believe its right. I tried to stay away from all this religion shiznitz but this is getting out of control.

Peace

 

[Timebuilder]

There are certain expressions that are still a part of me from my academy days. Not out of character, since I have been forgiven, not made "perfect." I'm still a sinner. That does not change.

He observed that he thought there was a lot of "crap," and I was observing that I thought he might take steps to ensure that he was right. Beleive me, the "old" me might have responded far more vigorously than a stray word. I still don't understand what brings out such extreme reactions from some members.

Back to the first comment. Only the non-believer thinks that there is some reason to be uncertain about the truth of the Bible. As a believer, it is true. As a non-believer, he has doubts. It isn't a matter of "name brand" religion. Christ spoke against religion. What He wants for us is to see us follow His word, according to His scripture. He said it. If you follow Him, that's a good enough reason to adhere to what He taught us.

As He said, "If it were not so, I would have told you."

 

[Timebuilder]

Religion should stay as private as your sexuality..

According to Jesus, His teaching should not be hidden.

 

[redd]

Geez TB, this seems to be more about you than anything else.

I mean no disrespect but....

You seem to want to digress and argue about everything.

You didn't even look up the one passage I quoted before you came back with an answer refuting my point. (It's from Romans chapter 2)

This kind of posturing and defensiveness is getting tiring for me too.

I don't usually reply to the religious threads because they always seem to breakdown to polarized arguing, which definitely does not promote the things of God, in fact it says a lot more about the poster who let's it get to that level.

There must be a reason you do this, TimeBuilder, and it is not promoting the gospel. Your intentions I'm sure are good, although a forum like this to do endless debates might not be the wisest move, a ban of any religious thoughts may come into effect as a result because of the strife they engender.

This kind of argueing gives God a bad name, especially to ones you say you're trying to reach. Think about it. Although I think this post will be ignored and bulldozed under as the rest have been. I would be happy to debate this with you, personally, on the PM system if you wish.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

it is not promoting the gospel. Your intentions I'm sure are good, although a forum like this to do endless debates might not be the wisest move, a ban of any religious thoughts may come into effect as a result because of the strife they engender.

This kind of argueing gives God a bad name, especially to ones you say you're trying to reach.

Yep. He just can't see it though. And anyone who might be sitting on the fence is pushed the other way.

 

[wms]

Christianity is a religion. That's not good or bad or anything else. It is just the way the english speaking world defines the word.

The world defines Christianity as a religion, not the Bible. The only religion in the Bible instituted by God is Judaism. Christians were called such in the Bible because of faith in Christ, not because a christian religion was established by Jesus. That was done by men afterwards without the authorization of God or the instruction of the Bible. Therefore, there is no credibility for a "christian religion". The credibility is within the Bible itself for the believer to gather around the person of Christ, "for where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them", Matt 18:20. That is why I as a believer don't have authority to establish credibility, I can only point to the sole credible source of Christianity, Christ Himself and the teachings of the apostles doctrine as given in the Bible, Acts 2:41 & 42. When men start claiming credibility, they assume an authority they don't have and false christian doctrines which remove Christ from the center are established.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...a ban of any religious thoughts may come into effect as a result because of the strife they engender.

A good point. I can't think of a single issue that has caused more argument and bloodshed throughout history than religion.

Maybe the human race will grow up someday...I sort of doubt it, though.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

The world defines Christianity as a religion, not the Bible. The only religion in the Bible instituted by God is Judaism. Christians were called such in the Bible because of faith in Christ, not because a christian religion was established by Jesus. That was done by men afterwards without the authorization of God or the instruction of the Bible. Therefore, there is no credibility for a "christian religion". The credibility is within the Bible itself for the believer to gather around the person of Christ, "for where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them", Matt 18:20. That is why I as a believer don't have authority to establish credibility, I can only point to the sole credible source of Christianity, Christ Himself and the teachings of the apostles doctrine as given in the Bible, Acts 2:41 & 42. When men start claiming credibility, they assume an authority they don't have and false christian doctrines which remove Christ from the center are established.

Okay, so in all that blather, I am just wondering if you are still trying to say that christianity is not a religion.

 

[wms]

I'll make it as simple as I can. The Bible does not define Christianity as a religion, so I don't either. The rest of the world can think what they want.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I'll make it as simple as I can. The Bible does not define Christianity as a religion, so I don't either. The rest of the world can think what they want.

I think you can make it simpler. Yes or no. Is christianity a religion?

 

[wms]

No.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

No.

This is why nobody is listening to you.

 

[wms]

That's OK. Matt 10:14 & 15.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Yes or no. Is christianity a religion?

Originally posted by wms
No.

What?

Sorry, w, but I gotta go with Hugh on this one: that's the most grotesque denial of reality I've read in a long time.

If Christianity isn't a religion, then what is it?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

That's OK. Matt 10:14 & 15.

and he calls an audible.... blue, 45, blue 45, hut 1, hut 2!

 

[Timebuilder]

Geez TB, this seems to be more about you than anything else.

I mean no disrespect but....

You seem to want to digress and argue about everything.

You didn't even look up the one passage I quoted before you came back with an answer refuting my point. (It's from Romans chapter 2)

This kind of posturing and defensiveness is getting tiring for me too.

I don't usually reply to the religious threads because they always seem to breakdown to polarized arguing, which definitely does not promote the things of God, in fact it says a lot more about the poster who let's it get to that level.

There must be a reason you do this, TimeBuilder, and it is not promoting the gospel. Your intentions I'm sure are good, although a forum like this to do endless debates might not be the wisest move, a ban of any religious thoughts may come into effect as a result because of the strife they engender.

This kind of argueing gives God a bad name, especially to ones you say you're trying to reach. Think about it. Although I think this post will be ignored and bulldozed under as the rest have been. I would be happy to debate this with you, personally, on the PM system if you wish.

I'm not interested in any debate about me. In over 4,000 posts, the members here know my background as a broadcaster, a writer, a liberal, and a sinner.

I'm still a sinner.

Why am I doing this? People either

1)Have questions

or

2)Make comments.

So, you and I are free is disagree about whether I should stop sharing the tuth. I'm not sharing me, just the Bible.

If you'd like my view of a scriptural passage, feel free to post it. You might have mentioned a passage, but did it support your contention?

Remember some of the most important points to be shared:

1) the authenticity of the Bible as the word of God, 2Tim 3:16-17

2) The Great Commisssion of Matthew 28

3) 1Peter 3:15 ......Should I speak up?

4) John 3:16

5) John 14:6

That's the short list. So, when someone decides to bait Christians a little, they don't get meaness or resentment, they get the truth, bare and unvarnished, right from the Bible.

As far as Romans 2 is concerned, was this the passage you wanted to mention?

"4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?'

I know that I don't despise His goodness, and I hope to answer as many questions as are asked to help lead to repentance for the unsaved.

To the best of my knowlege, I have yet to start a thread about Jesus or the Bible. I merely take the lead set by others. Something inside them, a question, a rage, a curiosity, or any number of things makes people post these comments.

As far as what gives God a bad name? I'd say child molesting priests have topped that list for a while now.

 

[Timebuilder]

If Christianity isn't a religion, then what is it?

I believe that religion is what people do instead of following God's teaching, from His word.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I believe that religion is what people do instead of following God's teaching, from His word.

So TB, are you also trying to tell me Christianity is not a religion?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

As far as what gives God a bad name? I'd say child molesting priests have topped that list for a while now.

Televangelists thieving money from those who need it most are probably a close second. Redd didn't say you necessarily topped the list, but he's right, you're on the list.

 

[Timebuilder]

Yep.

My church says "a Bible church" under the name of the township.

If you see a name like "first church of Christ" or "church of the apostles" or some other name that suggests involvement under a "religious" affiliation, then you probably won't find me there.

Some Bible churches have names like "Calvary Chapel," but I must point out that a "name" isn't the way you sort these ideas out.

You ask for and read their doctrinal statement. That details what they believe, and why. Then you know if you should stay for the teaching.

A "religion" usually has non-Biblical things added to it, and ignores some things that the Bible makes clear are still important.

Just ask the "religious" people that now have a gay "bishop."

 

[Timebuilder]

Redd didn't say you necessarily topped the list, but he's right, you're on the list.

I have a clue for both of you.

As sinners we are ALL on the list.

The question is: what do we do about it? The Bible has that answer.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

So... for the record. Yes or no, TB. Is Christianity a religion?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I have a clue for both of you.

As sinners we are ALL on the list.

We all give God a bad name?