With RTS out, what's in store for us?

[RTRHD]

Gee-wiz Nostradamus... what gave you that idea.

I hope like Helll I am wrong but I really don't think so.

 

[Diesel]

You're wrong on everything else.

Well except when ordering platform shoes.

 

[Captainzero1]

I've been thinking a lot on this since the ICOM came out two and a half hours ago. The conclusion I have reached is that it may not be all bad. I have immense respect for RTS and everything he has done for this industry, this company, and me personally. If he has an achilles heel, I think it may be his extreme loyalty to people. Let me explain.

The economic realities facing the industry and the company are so compelling that obviously the company needs to be revamped on a fundamental basis. In my opinion, and that of many others, the company is extremely bloated on the administrative and executive level. Many of the people in those positions have long-time and close ties to Mr. S and I think he is distraught at the prospect of downsizing in those areas.

From what I read, Mr. Sokol is a conservative, old-school, Omaha friend of Mr. B that is very highly regarded in business circles. A Fox Business analyst said when Mr. B and Mr. Sokol are together, they are the smartest guys in the room. Any room. I think this may bring an ability to make the tough but necessary actions to return the company to profitability. Emotional and personal ties will no longer trump good business decisions. Any of you NJ people who have been around a while can all point to at least one poor decision you know of as an example. Some may call these actions slash and burn cost-cutting. I prefer to think of it as better choices (two blue hard-bound books ring any bells?).

The one thing it definitely shows to me is a commitment on Berkshire's part to revive the company even if it means the retirement of the man that created the industry.

Gutshot, that downsizing may not reach the executive/administrative level only.

 

[netjetwife]

Wait what? Are you high? RTS didn't want to work with the unions, never has. He was shown the value of a union, but never embraced it until he was forced to.

I'm fully aware of that ... but in light of the fact that he did the right thing in the end--regardless of the reason--I think RTS should be given due credit, especially in a thread showing appreciation for his accomplishments. I had even opened my post with a subtle phrase (In the interest of giving credit where credit is due) to tactfully signal that my compliments were somewhat qualified. I trusted that those who care about good manners would easily catch my drift. Interesting that you missed it...

 

[AeroBoy]

Anyone know exactly how many vice presidents there are at NetJets?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshot, that downsizing may not reach the executive/administrative level only.

Absolutely true. But I don't expect anything on the pilot/flight attendant front until after the first of the year and the dust has settled from the voluntary measures program.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Absolutely true. But I don't expect anything on the pilot/flight attendant front until after the first of the year and the dust has settled from the voluntary measures program.

PM me...

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Anyone know exactly how many vice presidents there are at NetJets?

According to Reuters World Press:

THE WORLD'S TEN LARGEST ARMIES

China - 1,700,000
India - 1,200,000
North Korea - 900,000
South Korea - 560,000
Pakistan - 520,000
United States - 475,000
Iraq - 360,000
Myanmar - 325,000
Russia - 320,000
NetJets VP's - 319,999 (not an actual Army, but worthy of noting)
Iran - 320,000

 

[RTRHD]

Absolutely true. But I don't expect anything on the pilot/flight attendant front until after the first of the year and the dust has settled from the voluntary measures program.

I bet its before the first of the year. He could use the holiday busy season to recoup some losses before year end.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

According to Reuters World Press:

THE WORLD'S TEN LARGEST ARMIES

China - 1,700,000
India - 1,200,000
North Korea - 900,000
South Korea - 560,000
Pakistan - 520,000
United States - 475,000
Iraq - 360,000
Myanmar - 325,000
Russia - 320,000
NetJets VP's - 319,999 (not an actual Army, but worthy of noting)
Iran - 320,000

Now THAT is FUNNY!!!!! Sad, True, but Funny!!!

 

[RNObased]

According to Reuters World Press:

THE WORLD'S TEN LARGEST ARMIES

China - 1,700,000
India - 1,200,000
North Korea - 900,000
South Korea - 560,000
Pakistan - 520,000
United States - 475,000
Iraq - 360,000
Myanmar - 325,000
Russia - 320,000
NetJets VP's - 319,999 (not an actual Army, but worthy of noting)
Iran - 320,000

LMAO... Oh man that is funny.

 

[ghostrider64]

Well rumor is that two VPs got the AXE today... Maybe Sokol isn't our enemy afterall?

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Well rumor is that two VPs got the AXE today... Maybe Sokol isn't our enemy afterall?

Highly doubtful.

 

[RNObased]

Well rumor is that two VPs got the AXE today... Maybe Sokol isn't our enemy afterall?

It isn't rumor and is probably a good thing. You spend money like drunken sailors on shore leave when the company is bleeding money and what do you expect to happen?? A medal.

I would say Sokol is a good thing.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

I would say Sokol is a good thing.

Something that only those with a comfortable seniority number can say. However, I agree that for the business as a whole he will end up being a good thing for the reorganization of the company and elimination of waste.

For those of us at the very bottom of the seniority list though, this is most certainly not a good thing. The reality that we face doesn't afford us the ability to see the silver lining in any of this. Unless there is a miracle I think it's a foregone conclusion that AT LEAST the bottom 200-300 are gone.

Having said that, is he really a "good thing for the company" if it forces ANY of your NJA brothers and sisters to end up on the unemployment line and possibly lose their houses, credit, and everything that they have worked so hard for? I don't think so.

 

[RNObased]

Something that only those with a comfortable seniority number can say. However, I agree that for the business as a whole he will end up being a good thing for the reorganization of the company and elimination of waste.

For those of us at the very bottom of the seniority list though, this is most certainly not a good thing. The reality that we face doesn't afford us the ability to see the silver lining in any of this. Unless there is a miracle I think it's a foregone conclusion that AT LEAST the bottom 200-300 are gone.

Having said that, is he really a "good thing for the company" if it forces ANY of your NJA brothers and sisters to end up on the unemployment line and possibly lose their houses, credit, and everything that they have worked so hard for? I don't think so.

So what do you want to happen?? You want everything to go on as it has been with nothing changing?? You want to give concessions, those don't work. Just sitting there saying this is bad, doesn't cut it.

Yes, it going to hurt, but IF there are fuloughs at least there will be a company to come back to in time. Doing nothing there would be nothing FOR everyone.

Look something had to happen and it is finally. The pilots are the last thing on this guys list. Just the amount of salary that was cut yesterday is probably around 5 or 6 pilots worth.

I'm saying it is a good thing because there will be a company at the end of this. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

 

[HazMat]

Plan for the worst and hope for the best if you are not high on the seniority list. They seem to be the unrepresented group on FI. It really is easy to say give no concessions etc, unless you are the one who is going to be put out on the street. There is no right answer but everything should be considered before a person loses thier job for no fault of thier own. Just my two cents. NetJets is in a world of hurt right now and you have to worry whether the company will survive after cash losses of 250 million in 6 months. It may just be me but I am terrified for the industry. An iconic CEO is not shown the door unless there is real trouble.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

So what do you want to happen?? You want everything to go on as it has been with nothing changing?? You want to give concessions, those don't work. Just sitting there saying this is bad, doesn't cut it.

Yes, it going to hurt, but IF there are fuloughs at least there will be a company to come back to in time. Doing nothing there would be nothing FOR everyone.

Look something had to happen and it is finally. The pilots are the last thing on this guys list. Just the amount of salary that was cut yesterday is probably around 5 or 6 pilots worth.

I'm saying it is a good thing because there will be a company at the end of this. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

From a "business as a whole" standpoint it is a good thing. The company must survive, and "that's just business". Unfortunately, for the individuals whose lives are going to be most directly affected by this, that isn't much comfort in the short term.

Also, where in my post did I ever mention concessions? I didn't. For the record, I have never and would never advocate or vote for concessions. If I have to lose my job for now, so be it, but I want it to be one worth coming back to. If it makes you feel any better, that sentiment ecoes throughout 99.9% of the junior pilots that I've talked to.

Haven't we already given though? To the tune of 610 pilot's worth? What I want to happen is for the new team to come in, eliminate the waste at the top and consolidate duplicate operations before considering anything further with the pilot group. That makes good business sense to me in light of the goals that we as a group have already achieved through our mutual sacrifices.

Once again, it is easy for you to say things like, "It is going to hurt", because it isn't really going to hurt you. Just sayin'. Notice how quickly concessions come to your mind when these issues are brought up, even though I didn't even mention them? That's probably because like most Americans (and like me before all this furlough talk started) you are living to the extent of your means and the thought terrifies you. I get it. I'm just saying that that really doesn't compare to what the potential furloughees face and I would ask you to have a little bit of respect for that.

In the end, we really don't have to disagree about much other than semantics and maybe how these things are viewed from one perspective to another. That is normal given your position and mine. We really do agree on the bottom line though and that is that the company as a whole must survive, and when viewed in that light the thought of a few being sacrificed to save the many is justifiable. It sucks, but it may become necessary.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Something that only those with a comfortable seniority number can say. However, I agree that for the business as a whole he will end up being a good thing for the reorganization of the company and elimination of waste.

For those of us at the very bottom of the seniority list though, this is most certainly not a good thing. The reality that we face doesn't afford us the ability to see the silver lining in any of this. Unless there is a miracle I think it's a foregone conclusion that AT LEAST the bottom 200-300 are gone.

Having said that, is he really a "good thing for the company" if it forces ANY of your NJA brothers and sisters to end up on the unemployment line and possibly lose their houses, credit, and everything that they have worked so hard for? I don't think so.

As bad as this may sound, those at the "very bottom" of our seniority list shouldn't hav been hired in the first place. Many pilots here saw that writing on the wall long before times got REALLY ********************ty. We over-anticipated our growth and we're now on a situation where we have to go back and correct our wrong-doings. We can point fingers at those who allowed that to happen and say that had it not been for those idiots, none of you would be going through these tough times. Maybe you're right but I look at it as a great thi g for you at the bottom.

Had the company done the "right thing" back in 2008, we wouldn't have hired a single pilot. Had we done the "right thing" back then, none of you would have joined the ranks and none of you would now be holding a spot on one o the most desired seniority list. Wher would you b now had you not been hired here in 2008? Who knows. Reality says that only a few of you would have gone somewhere better than NJA. If you're furloughed from here, you'll always have a job to come back to when things get better. Had we not hired you in 2008, can you say the same for when we start to hire again? Over thepast few years, tens of thousands of VERY qualified pilots have lost their jobs and are now looking for something new. Would you want to compete with those guys today? I highly doubt it.

So the bottom line is this... You shouldn't have been hired here in the first place. It was a mistake that was made all through 2008. Be glad that you go the opportunity to work here for as long as you have and be glad that you'll be one of the first people that the company wil call when they need more help.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

As bad as this may sound, those at the "very bottom" of our seniority list shouldn't hav been hired in the first place. Many pilots here saw that writing on the wall long before times got REALLY ********************ty. We over-anticipated our growth and we're now on a situation where we have to go back and correct our wrong-doings. We can point fingers at those who allowed that to happen and say that had it not been for those idiots, none of you would be going through these tough times. Maybe you're right but I look at it as a great thi g for you at the bottom.

Had the company done the "right thing" back in 2008, we wouldn't have hired a single pilot. Had we done the "right thing" back then, none of you would have joined the ranks and none of you would now be holding a spot on one o the most desired seniority list. Wher would you b now had you not been hired here in 2008? Who knows. Reality says that only a few of you would have gone somewhere better than NJA. If you're furloughed from here, you'll always have a job to come back to when things get better. Had we not hired you in 2008, can you say the same for when we start to hire again? Over thepast few years, tens of thousands of VERY qualified pilots have lost their jobs and are now looking for something new. Would you want to compete with those guys today? I highly doubt it.

So the bottom line is this... You shouldn't have been hired here in the first place. It was a mistake that was made all through 2008. Be glad that you go the opportunity to work here for as long as you have and be glad that you'll be one of the first people that the company wil call when they need more help.

Unfortunately, there was no crystal ball "back then" and the company was facing deliveries of a huge number of airplanes and those positions needed to be filled. I was hired last March, well before any of what was about to come really started. I would say your statements might only apply to those hired after about July-August 08 but even then they are pointless and are not constructive in any way.

I think every one that was hired already understands the value of having a spot on the seniority list at NetJets and it isn't neccesary to educate us on that value. I'm not sure your statement about, "Reality says that only a few of you would have gone somewhere better than NJA" means much when you consider that many left stable jobs at the tops of seniority lists and that some even took pay cuts to come here. Yes, that was a calculated risk but it seemed like a pretty good bet given the long term outlook of NetJets in the early 2008 economy.

Those that were hired didn't have a crystal ball, and neither did management, so to say that we "shouldn't have been hired in the first place" is absolute crap and does nothing constructive for the current situation.

Once again, it sucks, and there is no way to sugar coat it, but you don't have to rub peoples nose in $hit!!!!