With RTS out, what's in store for us?

[-FlyAuburn-]

In hindsight it is easy to say that. Last year I didn't hear 1, NOT 1, single rumble about us hiring too many pilots from ANYONE. What the deal was last year was, "My buddy didn't get hired even tough I wrote him a LOR. He was the best out there. You don't have a clue what you are doing."

The bottom line is that NO ONE can say that someone dropped the ball or that someone should have stopped hiring, because NO ONE saw or was even CLOSE to seeing the DOW getting down to 7000. To say otherwise is horse $h!t. If you did in fact know, why weren't you and everyine else screaming at the tops of your lungs???

Because you didn't know how bad '09 was going to be. Again, NO ONE did.

From someone who was actually there during the hiring process, as you and I both were Fisch, you are absolutely correct. All I heard over and over again was things like ,"We are going to hire 450 a year until we reach 5000 pilots" and "We have 80 Hawker 4000s and hundreds of other aircraft coming and we won't be able to get you guys through training fast enough!". The ONLY uncertainty on everybody's minds during my April indoc class was whether or not OIL would go to 200 dollars a barrel and what effect that might have. I think at the time it was around 130/barrel? That was the ONLY negative aspect of the current economy that was being discussed by Management and Pilots alike.

Don't forget the Hangar meeting/video in May? I think, where RTS kept saying over and over again how we were going to "kill" the competition. He had absolute confidence and was a completely different man back then than he has been over the last 5 months.

These were VERY smart people folks, and if they didn't see it coming, then I'm pretty sure none of you self professed Nostradamuses saw it coming either.

NOBODY had a clue this was coming. To say otherwise is absolute bull$hit!!!!

 

[glasspilot]

I saw it coming.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

I saw it coming.

:laugh:

 

[G200_PILOT]

At this point, does it even matter? No matter what the road was paved with, we're here and we now have to do something. Who cares whether someone saw it coming? You of all people should know better than to use the 4000 as an excuse for SOME of the hiring. Hell, we've been hiring for that POS since 1987. :uzi:

 

[Fozzy]

I saw it coming.

absolute bull$hit. :laugh:

 

[Helmsalee]

Hey, furlough sucks! Always has and always will. But it has been a part of aviation for a long time and I predict it will be here long after I'm gone. Senior guys, keep in mind that when you were junior the thought of losing your job was a scary idea. Junior guys, think about years from now when, hopefully, you will be senior. Likely your attitudes will change. Maybe this does not apply to everyone, but it is true in most cases. I've been flying for a living for almost 40 years and have been junior, senior and now I'm junior again. Just keep in mind that attitudes change with time and circumstances. The one thing we can all do is respect each other and understand that everyone does not see the situation from the same point of view. It is not needed for senior or junior to get on this board and point fingers or attack others.
Nuff said,
Helm

 

[Helmsalee]

Hey, furlough sucks! Always has and always will. But it has been a part of aviation for a long time and I predict it will be here long after I'm gone. Senior guys, keep in mind that when you were junior the thought of losing your job was a scary idea. Junior guys, think about years from now when, hopefully, you will be senior. Likely your attitudes will change. Maybe this does not apply to everyone, but it is true in most cases. I've been flying for a living for almost 40 years and have been junior, senior and now I'm junior again. Just keep in mind that attitudes change with time and circumstances. The one thing we can all do is respect each other and understand that everyone does not see the situation from the same point of view. It is not needed for senior or junior to get on this board and point fingers or attack others.
Nuff said,
Helm

 

[AvroJockey]

Avro, you can be pissed all you want. I'm sorry if you're in the group I'm talking about but the fact is that we're overstaffed and whatever has to happen in order to make sure the company stops bleeding money has to happen. It's that simple. Yes, my comments were in hind sight. Nobody knew just how bad things would get but if you look back, you'll see that we were still hiring during the start of the down turn. Someone at that point should hav stopped that from happening. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you but I'm done dancing around the reality if the way things are. Sugarcoating hasn't helped any of us.

I am fully aware of the current economic situation and the consequences of not right-sizing the company if need be. I'm OK with any decision to furlough in the short term if it ensures long term stability. However, your comments about the junior guy, and their joining the company in the last year isn't called for.

You know, anger is generally a secondary emotion...maybe you're feeling guilty about not contributing more in the voluntary measures. JK , I think it's equally insulting that some junior guy forces their will on others in the seniority list.

 

[G200_PILOT]

I am fully aware of the current economic situation and the consequences of not right-sizing the company if need be. I'm OK with any decision to furlough in the short term if it ensures long term stability. However, your comments about the junior guy, and their joining the company in the last year isn't called for.

You know, anger is generally a secondary emotion...maybe you're feeling guilty about not contributing more in the voluntary measures. JK , I think it's equally insulting that some junior guy forces their will on others in the seniority list.

The way I said it wasn't called for. You're right. I'm a straight shooter and sometimes that stings a bit. All we can do is hope for the best. If it does come down to guys getting furloughed, we have a great group of pilots here that I'm sure will come together and help out in any way they can. We'll all just have to keep our fingers crossed.

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, Helm! These are tough times and things could get worse before the economy gets better. Mutual respect and empathy for another's situation are important traits that will help the NJ folks pull together. Good luck to you and the other junior pilots/families. NJW