Will The AirTran Pilots' Windfall Be A Consideration?

[S3sundowner]

Those numbers were put out at the announcement. Ty, as a pay protected FO you'll be ahead, and with the growth planned, you'll be a senior fo by the end of the decade. But, in the end, you'll be way ahead. Good luck.

 

[vixin]

I'm trying top keep it civil, Vixin', but you're an idiot. I'm done arguing with you. The next words you hear from me is going to be "The fat one's yours". :laugh:

Yep little mans syndrome. You sir are pathetic. Sad you maybe on our list one day. Guess the truth hurts.. AHHhhh! Before you said you wanted your QOL and didnt care about the money. You sir want your cake and eat it to. What a hypocrite! But what do I I I I get. You are not bright enough to see what you will get. Just another greedy Tranny posting on FI.

 

[S3sundowner]

deleted.

 

[S3sundowner]

deleted

 

[PCL_128]

The flaming is really disappointing.

I've really enjoyed my time at SWA, but if the posts here are any indication that is over.

No reason to believe that, unless you are convinced that your own pilot group will be unwilling to accept an arbitrator's award and instead act like a bunch of USAirways East pilots. I am confident that the AirTran pilots will accept an arbitrator's decision and move on, even if it wasn't something that they felt was fair. Why? Because it's final and binding, and that's how it works. Can you say the same about your pilot group? If so, then you have nothing to worry about! Everything will be fine.

I think we can all agree SWA buying AAI had a huge hand it this TA?

Absolutely. Because of the merger announcement, we lost our leverage with the threat of a strike and had to settle for something far less than we would have gotten without the merger.

 

[roughneck]

I am confident that the AirTran pilots will accept an arbitrator's decision and move on, even if it wasn't something that they felt was fair.

This shouldn't ever make to an arbitrator. Both sides know what is fair and just but acknowledging the facts are sometimes more difficult . No need to discuss equitable as the AirTran pilots I am sure understand very well how equitable this deal is for them regardless where they fall on the list.

I hope cooler heads will prevail and we get a negotiated solution rather than an arbitrators decision. If the operations are ever truly combined I think a negotiated solution would make for an environment that is more likely to be casual and the SWA culture will remain. An arbitrators decision that you think is unfavorable would be harder to accept than a negotiated solution that your own peers felt was fair.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I hope we get a deal from our unions rather than a arbitrators decision. I don't think the AT guys will add much in the way to our culture if they get hammered by an arbitrator. Our guys will likely be kinder than an arbitrator would. Fire away but I'm not flaming. Just giving my opinion.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yep little mans syndrome. You sir are pathetic. Sad you maybe on our list one day. Guess the truth hurts.. AHHhhh! Before you said you wanted your QOL and didnt care about the money. You sir want your cake and eat it to. What a hypocrite! But what do I I I I get. You are not bright enough to see what you will get. Just another greedy Tranny posting on FI.

Yeah, that's right. You're civil, gracious and a credit to your airline. A real visible example of the "culture" we should be willing to compromise to be a part of.

Of all the braying jackasses on FO, you bray the loudest. Hee-Haw!

 

[vixin]

Good one little boy you hurt my feelings. Back at ya hypocrite. You are one the the least civil ones on here, especially if it doesnt go your way. Poor little boy was told to share and you throw temper tantrums.:bawling: Who called who an idiot. Thats the civility you have. Just because you have small mans disease. You are an embarassment to the trannies I am sure.

 

[ivauir]

I'm trying top keep it civil,

Wow.

Ty,

If you really want to keep it civil you shouldn't spend so much time posturing. You have been an extremist from the outset:
- You have proposed outlandish SLI's
- You refuse to to acknowledge the boon this acquisition will mean for your career.
- You act like you are an authority on M+A law and that AGM only favors your view.

When someone posts relevant and factual case law your response is to call people names. When the argument doesn't go your way you say "our teams have asked us not to discuss the SLI", but that never stops you from arguing your point.

If you want to be civil I suggest a different tack. I would certainly welcome such a change.

 

[ASADFW7]

FYI for the most part every airline pilot thinks they and their airline is the best.

 

[Tanker Clown]

FYI for the most part every airline pilot thinks they and their airline is the best.

But you guys are talking about Air Tran. They pay crap. Are basically a stepping stone airline...or a career for a guy who can't get hired at a real airline. If I had a couple of DUIs, then hell yes I'd tell someone that I wanted to stay at Air Tran....because where else could I go? Hell, they had to buy the Air Tran name to escape their past. I don't even have and app in there. If SWA isn't hiring, then I'll go with Delta or Skywest or someone like that.

 

[GuppyWN]

I love that Tanker Clown guy. I think I'll put him on my buddy list.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

Pot and kettle. You guys are no better and probably quite a bit worse. Get down off that soapbox before you fall and hurt yourselves.

 

[Kharma Police]

Wow.

Ty,

If you really want to keep it civil you shouldn't spend so much time posturing. You have been an extremist from the outset:
- You have proposed outlandish SLI's
- You refuse to to acknowledge the boon this acquisition will mean for your career.
- You act like you are an authority on M+A law and that AGM only favors your view.

When someone posts relevant and factual case law your response is to call people names. When the argument doesn't go your way you say "our teams have asked us not to discuss the SLI", but that never stops you from arguing your point.

If you want to be civil I suggest a different tack. I would certainly welcome such a change.

If you don't like what he has to say then don't respond or put him on your ignore list. There are several guys that I tune out on this board. Maybe try watching football or get a new game for the crash pad X-Box.

The reality is that you SWA guys would miss him if he was gone. You would be forced to go back to trading tit for tats with the Delta boys. Even Tanker Clown has gotten bored with trying to throw feces at Delta. The fact is, you need your bad guy to justify your point of view, it's just human nature. But as I pointed out in a previous post, it's all just mental masturbation that will not affect the final outcome.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'll always be senior to you Ty. With or without an arbitrator.

The sooner you simply have fun by throwing your darts instead of taking it all too personally, the sooner you'll chillax. I'm good chunkin' or catchin' - darts that is.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

What Kharma said.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

I'll always be senior to you Ty. With or without an arbitrator.

The sooner you simply have fun by throwing your darts instead of taking it all too personally, the sooner you'll chillax. I'm good chunkin' or catchin' - darts that is.

Gup

I'll be fine, as usual.

Ty's a karate man, and a karate man bleeds on the inside.

 

[27 driver]

But you guys are talking about Air Tran. They pay crap. Are basically a stepping stone airline...or a career for a guy who can't get hired at a real airline. If I had a couple of DUIs, then hell yes I'd tell someone that I wanted to stay at Air Tran....because where else could I go? Hell, they had to buy the Air Tran name to escape their past. I don't even have and app in there. If SWA isn't hiring, then I'll go with Delta or Skywest or someone like that.

Just to add a little perspective. AAI is 17 years old. When SWA was 17 years old it was a steeping stone as well with bottom of the industry pay. Comparing the 2 just doesn't make sense. But fling mud at will it is entertaining.

 

[DonVerita]

But you guys are talking about Air Tran. They pay crap. Are basically a stepping stone airline...or a career for a guy who can't get hired at a real airline. If I had a couple of DUIs, then hell yes I'd tell someone that I wanted to stay at Air Tran....because where else could I go? Hell, they had to buy the Air Tran name to escape their past. I don't even have and app in there. If SWA isn't hiring, then I'll go with Delta or Skywest or someone like that.

Tanker Clown will never leave his big fish in a little pond position at PFT Gulfstream International. You think Delta or AirTran would hire a jackwagon like you? Think again. Go pre-flight your BE-1900 and try not to step in the oil pooling under each engine.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Just to add a little perspective. AAI is 17 years old. When SWA was 17 years old it was a steeping stone as well with bottom of the industry pay. Comparing the 2 just doesn't make sense. But fling mud at will it is entertaining.

You are right, you can't compare the two. You really can't compare the two. Continental and United is a merger of two equals. SWA + AT isn't that case. It's basically the airline everyone wants to be at + an airline who has adult jets but pays and treats its pilots like a regional jet outfit that people don't want to be at (or are trapped there due to poor resumes/skeletons). I think every SWA guy would tell you...and every Air Tran guy would privately admit, that this isn't a merger of equals.

I'm sure the arbitrator will see it this way and know that AT just won the lottery. I'm curious if he'll make you guys interview for a job. Seems only fair since a lot of guys there want to be at SWA, and have probably interviewed and been turned down. I just hope I get in before this whole thing goes down.

 

[27 driver]

You are right, you can't compare the two. You really can't compare the two. Continental and United is a merger of two equals. SWA + AT isn't that case. It's basically the airline everyone wants to be at + an airline who has adult jets but pays and treats its pilots like a regional jet outfit that people don't want to be at (or are trapped there due to poor resumes/skeletons). I think every SWA guy would tell you...and every Air Tran guy would privately admit, that this isn't a merger of equals.

I'm sure the arbitrator will see it this way and know that AT just won the lottery. I'm curious if he'll make you guys interview for a job. Seems only fair since a lot of guys there want to be at SWA, and have probably interviewed and been turned down. I just hope I get in before this whole thing goes down.

Ya, we will all interview for our jobs. What ever helps you sleep at night. You simply look past the point of my post. Either way you will be junior. Flame away clown. Its the only thing you are good at.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I can't think of one, single reason that Southwest will combine the two companies. What a disaster waiting to happen. I bet they run them separately. JMHO

 

[FL717]

Despite their ability to rub some people here wrong.... I actually have to admit that I believe Tanker Clown and Bob Dylan are pointing out some VERY important and relevant things:

1. I was hired on at Airtran when I was unable to get hired anywhere prior. I did NOT have an ATP because I was only 19 years old. I didn't meet the minimums to apply anywhere else because I had ZERO turbine time when I was hired. Also I only had my G.E.D. and all my other options were limited. I applied at Mesa, but they required a High School Diploma and they would NOT accept my G.E.D. despite my pointing out that it WAS an equivalancy. Fortunately AirTran did hire me. I think it might have been the 110.4 hours of X-Country time along with my 67.5 hours of Night time. I also had approx 101.1 hours of Multiengine time. Anyway.... I struggled when they put me in the DC-9, so they switched me to the B-717 (or as I call it - The Electric Bird), because I was able to master the automation due to my hundreds of hours of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2.0 at home.

2. I believe they will run AirTran and Southwest separate, and that most if not ALL AirTran Pilots will be replaced by SWA new-hires, and AirTran Pilots will and should be required to interview as new-hires. My problem is that I have 3 D.U.I's. Well.... not actually 3 YET. My latest one was coming home from the SWA-AAI Roundup and I was pulled over by the Fayetteville Sherrifs Department. I registered a .17 plus I had some weed in the car. I am awaiting my court case.... but I have a GREAT Attorney. I HOPE that I can simply just move right over to SWA WITHOUT re-interviewing OR if they do run separate companies... that they will keep AAI around till I retire or go to jail.

Spot on guys... I rarely see unbiased non-flaming posts on Flightinfo... but you both nailed this one!

Kudos!!

 

[FL717]

BTW - Please keep all this information on the down-low. I have NOT informed the FAA or my employer yet... and I do NOT want to ruin my chance at true LUV.... if you know what I mean...

Thanks Bro's!!

 

[Lonestar]

It is a complete misnomer that our new contract put ANY strain on our profitability, far from it. AAI had the lowest non-fuel CASM of any major, and the lowest Pilot CASM. I haven't run the numbers on SWA pay/scheduling rules for our block hours, but I have seen the numbers using the new Alaska rates.

Ty, since you brought it up I thought I would address your comments with the words of your MEC VC, Mr. PLC.

"The $140 million number is low. Remember, it's over $50 million in just the first year, and it's a five year deal. Also, AirTran won't make nearly $160 million this year in net profit."

And since you brought up our contract, it will cost north of $100 million per year to bring your pilots to our SWAPA rates. AT mgmt would be insane to throw nearly 2/3 of your best year's profit at your group.

 

[ivauir]

If you don't like what he has to say then don't respond or put him on your ignore list. There are several guys that I tune out on this board. Maybe try watching football or get a new game for the crash pad X-Box.

The reality is that you SWA guys would miss him if he was gone. You would be forced to go back to trading tit for tats with the Delta boys. Even Tanker Clown has gotten bored with trying to throw feces at Delta. The fact is, you need your bad guy to justify your point of view, it's just human nature. But as I pointed out in a previous post, it's all just mental masturbation that will not affect the final outcome.

Kinda funny coming from a guy who gets fired up over Bob D's posts ...

Frankly, I want nothing more than to welcome AirTran bubbas aboard, and I'm working hard to do just that.

Certain attitudes are making that very difficult.

Regardless of the SLI every AirTran pilot will be better off after this transaction. On the other hand SWA pilots have something to lose ...

We through you a party and someone takes a dump in the urinal! WTF?!

 

[FL717]

<<<>>>

 

[Kharma Police]

Kinda funny coming from a guy who gets fired up over Bob D's posts ...

Frankly, I want nothing more than to welcome AirTran bubbas aboard, and I'm working hard to do just that.

Certain attitudes are making that very difficult.

Regardless of the SLI every AirTran pilot will be better off after this transaction. On the other hand SWA pilots have something to lose ...

We through you a party and someone takes a dump in the urinal! WTF?!

I find Bob Dylan's posts quite funny and entertaining, like watching a Rhesus Monkey throw feces around at a lab technician. I single him out for ridicule because he is not involved with either company and he is such an easy target.

All of the AirTran and Southwest posts are becoming too predictable, your above post is a perfect example. However, I do appreciate the fact that you are trying to be friendly when you insult us.

I can already predict your response but please feel free to post it anyway....

 

[MILPILOT17]

BTW - Please keep all this information on the down-low. I have NOT informed the FAA or my employer yet... and I do NOT want to ruin my chance at true LUV.... if you know what I mean...

Thanks Bro's!!

Great post(s)! Don't worry, your secret is safe with us

 

[Lear70]

I find Bob Dylan's posts quite funny and entertaining,

I might, if he ever had anything original or useful to add to the discussion...

At least some of the other flamers occasionally throw out something new or something that at least requires more than 2 seconds of thought before dismissing it outright...