Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[texman]

I have a lot of friends over at Airtran, unfortunately it looks like they need to google "covered transaction". Guadalupe is not an "air carrier", and this is not covered by the RLA or AM.

BINGO! Hello people!

 

[texman]

We just don't know until the transaction is complete.

 

[Jetjockey]

I call to your attention that the biggest flamebait writers are relative newbies to this site. Very few posts, but when a hot topic is at hand, these cockroaches come out of from under their rocks.

 

[kwick]

Trying to find a loophole in a law
That is to protect the seniority rights
Of airline pilots is a "scumbag" move,
If that is the case.

 

[Kharma Police]

Trying to find a loophole in a law
That is to protect the seniority rights
Of airline pilots is a "scumbag" move,
If that is the case.

The guys saying that shiz don't work for Southwest. Don't take the bait, homey!

 

[jhill]

Southwest pilots, my fellow AirTran pilots. As a pilot wisely pointed out on our internal message board, what good does this bickering do on an anonymous message board? We are possibly only hurting ourselves "if" this goes to arbitration. Let the trolls, haters, wannabes and flame baiters find some other use for their time. As for us, we gotta keep it real if we are going to work together!

Thanks for the voice of reason. We will all come out OK on the deal for a variety of reasons. Nothing said on this board will helps eithers cause but it just might be able to hurt.

 

[luv2fly]

OK, Chief.. . . . Let me spell it out for you. AirTran pilots also have a contract . . . . and that contract is binding on anyone who merges with us, or buys 51%.

Number two- Smarter pilots than yourself already understand that the faster AirTran pilots are on the SWA contract, the better it will be for both parties. Otherwise, where do you think the growth will be- the cheaper operator who has options on 25 more 717's available for pennies on the dollar, or the domestic-only airline with the higher CASM that requires purchases of additional 737 to expand?

Hmmmm . . . . Geee . . . . . I wonder. :laugh:

I guess you didn't read any of the documents. SWA is not merging with anyone, at this point. You guys are being purchased by Guadalupe Holdings, which means you get to operate under your CBA. Just another owner. Until SWA buys you from G.H no one is merging with anyone. That is if SWA decides to buy 51% of you.

 

[Noserider76]

BINGO! Hello people!

It would take a bunch of real brain surgeons to allow their company to operate another company that flys the same airplanes for a lot less. Standby to be bent over if you allow it.

 

[oriondriver]

GH could lease gates in ATL and sell future aircraft options to WN. GH could also install WN friendly management team at AAI. It could depend on how militant the AAI SLI team is during negotiations.

 

[Max Powers]

GH could lease gates in ATL and sell future aircraft options to WN. GH could also install WN friendly management team at AAI. It could depend on how militant the AAI SLI team is during negotiations.

Another Straight from the military no experience first airline boy responses.

You aren't being helpful. We know you are worried about SLI but this isn't the way to vent your frustrations. Educate yourself.

 

[PCL_128]

And in your contract does it state that if sold AT can not be operated separately?

Yes, it does. I'm not going to get into a debate about SLI, or any of the other silly stuff going on around here lately, but I'll be more than happy to explain our scope language.

Our TA, which will almost certainly be ratified before the end of the month, includes a holding company side letter that binds any affiliate of the company to our scope language. That means any successor, including a holding company of a holding company, is bound to our scope language. And that scope language requires that the two operations be merged no later than 18 months after the date of corporate closing. If SWA were to attempt to operate the carriers separately for longer than 18 months (and I don't believe that they will), then it would go to expedited arbitration and an arbitrator would force SWA to merge the operations. If they still refused, a federal judge would then step in and make it even more clear to them.

None of this will happen, of course, because Gary Kelly is far smarter than a bunch of guys posting on Flightinfo, and he wouldn't be going through all of this just to create separate operations. He's looking for hundreds of millions of dollars in synergies, not angry affiliates.

I will bet that SWA does not care much about your contract.

You should probably take a look at the merger agreement, then. SWA has agreed to abide by all labor contracts in place at AirTran on the date of corporate closing. Not that they really have a choice, but it's in writing to make it abundantly clear to everyone.

 

[texman]

It would take a bunch of real brain surgeons to allow their company to operate another company that flys the same airplanes for a lot less. Standby to be bent over if you allow it.

True we might allow it only for two years per our contract, but it will allow a nice variable 3+% pay raise for us all. Bent over, never! lol

 

[seerickyfly]

It would take a bunch of real brain surgeons to allow their company to operate another company that flys the same airplanes for a lot less. Standby to be bent over if you allow it.

GK has been real protective of the culture at SWA. Just like Herb was. I think he will give himself a out and maybe even one to SWAPA. (If things goes sour.) I just dont think some people on here are very realistic. They are banking their whole career on Bond-McCaskill and arbitration. Like its a given. Relative senority or bust!!

SWA has to iron out a Acqusition agreement with SWAPA not ALPA. Airtran pilots do have their contract but SWA doesnt have to even meet with them after the purchase is final.

Trust me when I say that SWA pilots want this to be a good healthy relationship/merger. Its good for both of us. I just think some posts from Airtran pilots think they can just walk into negotiations of SLI and say "No thanks" and head directly to a arbitrator.

SWA has been giving SWAPA hints for over 2 years that a buyout might happen. They stoped growth and started hoarding cash. SWAPA has did their home work. So has SWA.

Just my opinion. Lets all just get a deal done. If everybody is pissed off it was probally fair.

 

[Lonestar]

If the 717 program is such a money maker (according to AAI), then what would keep Guadaloupe Holdings from selling it off to another buyer? (And the 737 operation for that matter.) Does AAI have seperate operating certificates for both fleets?

If Gary does, in fact, still plans to persue it, that would keep the WN acquiring percentage well below 51%. IF... he ever chooses to by the remaining 737 operation from GH.

This could be a modern twist on the Gordon Gecko-Blue Star Airlines dismemberment. An innovative, shrewd way to elliminate a competitor. Who knows...

 

[seerickyfly]

Ye128;2072258s, it does. I'm not going to get into a debate about SLI, or any of the other silly stuff going on around here lately, but I'll be more than happy to explain our scope language.

Our TA, which will almost certainly be ratified before the end of the month, includes a holding company side letter that binds any affiliate of the company to our scope language. That means any successor, including a holding company of a holding company, is bound to our scope language. And that scope language requires that the two operations be merged no later than 18 months after the date of corporate closing. If SWA were to attempt to operate the carriers separately for longer than 18 months (and I don't believe that they will), then it would go to expedited arbitration and an arbitrator would force SWA to merge the operations. If they still refused, a federal judge would then step in and make it even more clear to them.

"Nope. Scope covers when you are buying someone else. Not being purchased. The Bond law only kicks in when the two are merged. If Airtran is being run as is with no changes the feds dont care. You still got your contact and its still being paid. Nothing has changed for you."

None of this will happen, of course, because Gary Kelly is far smarter than a bunch of guys posting on Flightinfo, and he wouldn't be going through all of this just to create separate operations. He's looking for hundreds of millions of dollars in synergies, not angry affiliates.

"Correct Gary is smart. He will not let this get out of hand. I even bet he will he will lay the law down to both groups if it goes sour. He is a straight shooter and wont pull any punches."


You should probably take a look at the merger agreement, then. SWA has agreed to abide by all labor contracts in place at AirTran on the date of corporate closing. Not that they really have a choice, but it's in writing to make it abundantly clear to everyone.

SWA will abide by it. Do you have any growth guarentees? Or any Capt. upgrade promises? Nope. Neither do we, anymore. We did have growth targets in our last contract but no more.

 

[GuppyWN]

Yeah I'm totally wounded....Why would you want to create a whip saw, is all I'm saying?? Answer- Because you lack experience in the airline business. You have no idea the monster you would create. Look at Airways. Those who do not learn from past mistakes will be condemned to repeat them.

I'm on my Fourth airline and let me guess this is your first?

You can create all the ratios and alike. Won't matter if we stay separate who has the lower CASM in operations and labor? Who has the international ops? Who has the 50 plus 737s on order (-800 or -700).

And the Coup de Grace......Drum roll....Federal Law. Which means arbitration. No offense to my future brothers and sister at SWA but this is how it will most likely play out. Both sides of (pilots) have very little say in SLI and how the merger will play out. Just one man's opinion.

Corporate and 3 airlines. You just don't like what I'm saying because I'm a smartass and it cuts a little too close to home.

I'll withdraw. Really serves no purpose.

Gup

 

[Max Powers]

Corporate and 3 airlines. You just don't like what I'm saying because I'm a smartass and it cuts a little too close to home.

I'll withdraw. Really serves no purpose.

Gup

Wow - I've been out maned; you certainly took the high road. Let me reiterate You win. I cede. Dude do you ever look at the literature your union puts out to help educate folks like yourself on this acquisition. Maybe you should look into that is all I'm saying dawg.

 

[Bwipilot]

This is getting pretty good. My wife turned off her soaps to come read the thread. Shed did wonder why Max Powers was worried about having inferior hair though

 

[GuppyWN]

Shed did? Tell her to comb over hear and brush my lose folicals.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

Shed did? Tell her to comb over hear and brush my lose folicals.

Gup

Wow... and I thought I'D had a lot to drink tonight...

Can't sleep, monkeys will get me, can't sleep, monkeys will get me, can't sleep,,,