Will "Song" succeed?

[pilotyip]

Pilolts support

Will the Delta pilot's come out of the cockpit and help clean the cabin and load bags to help make a quick turn possible? Or will the airline pilot's "It's not my job prevail? If they do then this will become a true revolution. I know pilots at the LLC's have stepped up to the plate in these very situations

 

[surplus1]

As far as the rest, this is not the thread for it. You seem to be good at getting off topic and getting your little digs in at the Delta pilots. Suffice to say that you really have little knowledge of the Delta pilot situation, the "full pay to the last day situation", and the retirement situation. How could you? You have no self-interest in any of them? All you have is your little jabs. Enjoy them.

C

Boy you really have a chip on your shoulder. If you'd set it down for a couple of hours you might realize that "digging" the Delta pilots or any other pilots is of no real interest to me. The discussion is about Song and the pros and cons that this "LCC" may produce, not Delta pilots. As a group you just happen to be in the first venture, i.e.. the guinea pigs in the experiment. That's not my doing and I don't applaud the idea.

The same concepts will apply, with minor variations, wherever a "new LCC subsidiary" is created. Witness United's "plan". The only real difference appears to be that they, thanks to bankruptcy protection, are up front with the compensation changes that this type of carrier will ultimately generate. I don't think it will be beneficial to pilot compensation packages in the long term. Not at Delta and not anywhere else.

It is in your interest and our interest that the Company succeed in this venture. I simply fear that they will ultimately do so at the expense of the pilot's compensation packages. Yours first and eventually mine. If you do not share that viewand you feel you can maintain the status quo, then I hope you are right and I am wrong.

 

[surplus1]

Like where?

I think that "slogan" originates with USAirways, lives at UAL and appears to be prevalent in pilot thinking at AA and DAL. It hasn't worked at the former two and I don't think it will work at the remaining two. Something has to give. Right now, the corporations hold the winning hand re labor and are backed by the government.

In the current scenario, which I don't see as changing (in our favor) in the near term, perhaps a different strategy by labor could produce greater benefits in the long term. A bit of rowing in the same direction just might keep the rest of us from going over the falls, like some of us already have.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Surplus,

Both U and UAL have already given massive concessions, DAL and AMR have in the past. Despite your assertion, I can think of no examples where ALPA pilots have not accepted concessions to avoid that "last day." Sometimes it has worked, sometimes it has simply led to more price wars, one reason why ALPA is now very careful about giving up hard won victories.

As far as rowing in the same direction, I think that your mec and the rjdc effectively eliminated any chance of that ever happening. I know you think the fault is ours. We think the fault is yours. And here we stand.

P.S.
Our scope clause (the section that your group is trying to eliminate) is the ONLY thing that is keeping our pilots in the cockpit of Song. You are concerned about what Song could mean in the future. I am concerned as well. However, if your group had its way, mgt would have taken our 757's and given them to cheaper labor (maybe your pilots). Once again, we are simply trying to protect our jobs. So far, in this instance, it has worked, despite all those on this board who parrot the line that scope doesn't work.

 

[skydiverdriver]

I personally hope that Song does well.

 

[csmith]

Boy you really have a chip on your shoulder. If you'd set it down for a couple of hours you might realize that "digging" the Delta pilots or any other pilots is of no real interest to me.

No chip, just the prowess of observation, and your statement above proves that you are either lying, or just don't remember your posts--another log on the fire for the pro age-60 debate. If the thread isn't about Delta pilots, you shouldn't bring it up. Of course, I'm sure the "moderator" won't put the hammer down on one of his buddies.

C

 

[ifly4food]

No chip, just the prowess of observation, and your statement above proves that you are either lying, or just don't remember your posts--another log on the fire for the pro age-60 debate. If the thread isn't about Delta pilots, you shouldn't bring it up.

Of course, I'm sure the "moderator" won't put the hammer down on one of his buddies.

C

The "moderator" won't put the hammer down on one of his buddies?

cssmith, I resent your assertion. I'm putting the hammer down on you. If you don't like what you see here, feel free to find a new place to rant. You have a lot of nerve to come on here and insult one of your hosts.

I did not take sides with surplus1's assertions on this thread. I also must say that he is not my "buddy", in fact I've never met him. I think he and I agree on some basic things but disagree on a lot too. Either way, you clearly show that you DO have a chip on your shoulder by lumping all Connection pilots into the same mainline hating group, and by insulting me. I guess it's guilt by association, right?
I work for ASA. We agreed to hire your furloughees with preference. My problem is with ALPA's policies, not you. I don't support a lawsuit.

This thread has turned away from my original post, and I'd like to see it turn away from the "jabs" both sides are giving and back to the original question. That's directed to everyone, including surplus and cssmith.

 

[csmith]

The "moderator" won't put the hammer down on one of his buddies?

cssmith, I resent your assertion. I'm putting the hammer down on you. If you don't like what you see here, feel free to find a new place to rant. You have a lot of nerve to come on here and insult one of your hosts.

I did not take sides with surplus1's assertions on this thread. I also must say that he is not my "buddy", in fact I've never met him. I think he and I agree on some basic things but disagree on a lot too. Either way, you clearly show that you DO have a chip on your shoulder by lumping all Connection pilots into the same mainline hating group, and by insulting me. I guess it's guilt by association, right?
I work for ASA. We agreed to hire your furloughees with preference. My problem is with ALPA's policies, not you. I don't support a lawsuit.

This thread has turned away from my original post, and I'd like to see it turn away from the "jabs" both sides are giving and back to the original question. That's directed to everyone, including surplus and cssmith.

This was my point in the first place. This thread straying from the original topic. Surplus initiated it. Nobody stops it. I'm sorry you are so offended by my point out the obvious. It seems to happen in every thread which gets anywhere near Delta. I know you have it in you because I've seen you do it with other threads, yet you seem to let this individual spout wherever and whenever, hence the "buddy" term. I am not ranting, nor have a chip. Just looking for "equal" moderating, or perhaps it's only "fair" moderating--<weak attempt at ALPA DFR humor>.

 

[ifly4food]

This was my point in the first place. This thread straying from the original topic. Surplus initiated it. Nobody stops it. I'm sorry you are so offended by my point out the obvious. It seems to happen in every thread which gets anywhere near Delta. I know you have it in you because I've seen you do it with other threads, yet you seem to let this individual spout wherever and whenever, hence the "buddy" term. I am not ranting, nor have a chip. Just looking for "equal" moderating, or perhaps it's only "fair" moderating--<weak attempt at ALPA DFR humor>.

I did get a chuckle out of your "DFR humor"

You know my position because I just told you what it is.

If it makes you feel any better, while I occasionaly speak up on a Delta topic, I've learned not to moderate them because invariably, someone on one side or another will start screaming "censorship" and create an even bigger mess. I used to close them or erase them as soon as it went to the old RJDC rhetoric, but not anymore.
So if that doesn't meet your deffinition of "fair" moderating, then I can't help you. I have found it's most fair to practice no moderating on this issue. My previous statement was an expression of my disappointment with your crack about my being unfair, which I didn't appreciate. I accept your apology.

Now, can we please get back to a discussion of "Song" relevant to the original post?

 

[Timebuilder]

I like Bobby's mention of Song Sung Blue.

Do you remember the old Delta commercial with the singing pilots and FA's? They could do a similar commercial for Song, indicating that the pilots will be paid less than other "Delta" pilots.

"Most of us weren't working
were tired of all this jerking
so now.......... we're working.................... for a Song....."

(big finish, pull back to shot of the airplane, FA's in a chorus line on the wing)

 

[HoursHore]

People want their Airline to
1. take off on time
2. take off on time
3. not be treated like crap.

If song can do that operating outta LGA in addition to the other places, they'll do well. thats a big if.