will net jets change bases policy?

[d91papa]

When I first did the internet app., NJA didn't have domiciles. However, by the time I got to the interview, the contract had been ratified. I'll make the 6 1/2 hour drive for now. Should be doable with 7/7. I hate to have to leave after NJA spent so much $ on my training.

 

[p3hawk]

closing LAX eh

Well if there thinking about closing LAX, Im gonna haf'ta tell bubba Jeb Bush to open up a whole new Disney World jus for the new inflex of pilots!!

 

[xpdriver]

If you come to nja. Be ready to live in one of the 5, FOREVER. Was said in recurrent(RTS) that there may be 7 one day,but that is all.

And to set the record straight,they are offering all the 5 still. They offer certain ones for certain interviews. People that indicate which one they want are getting those interview dates..

We know it suxs but we told them(MGMT) that it would not work. So why should we give up something(MONEY<INSURANCE,401K.) for something that is going to fail.

Sorry GUYS/GALS it is what it is.

 

[d91papa]

If you come to nja. Be ready to live in one of the 5, FOREVER. Was said in recurrent(RTS) that there may be 7 one day,but that is all.

And to set the record straight,they are offering all the 5 still. They offer certain ones for certain interviews. People that indicate which one they want are getting those interview dates..

We know it suxs but we told them(MGMT) that it would not work. So why should we give up something(MONEY<INSURANCE,401K.) for something that is going to fail.

Sorry GUYS/GALS it is what it is.

I'm confused (as usual). If you say this policy will not work, and we won't negotiate for a policy doomed to fail, then why do you say be prepared to be with this domicile system forever? Are you saying that NJA will continue the above regardless of the fiscal/financial consequences? Apparently NJA had determined that it will work and NJA will profit from a domicile based system, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

 

[netjetwife]

D91, you read my mind! That was rather an inconsistency, wasn't it?
I think it's more apt to say that this is a "wait and see" situation. If they're going to play flavor of the month with domiciles, I'd advise those interested in a particular choice to call up and ask which month it will be offered. Do they even know that? So RTS put a positive spin on the Domicile Debacle in front of the pilots. That was to be expected; I'm sure they did the same with their failed experiments from the past, as well. None of us know Santulli's devotion to the brain-child left behind by Boisture. Word is that Santulli isn't too impressed by everything that BB did. Yes they are hiring pilots, but qualified applicants have also posted here telling us the domicile debacle is the reason they're not going to NJ. Did y'all read that bit (one sentence with huge impact potential) in the contract that says seniority rights govern domicile assignments? There better be a method in their madness that takes that into consideration or things could get very sticky. This is definitely one to watch. NJW

 

[NJA Capt]

Apparently NJA had determined that it will work and NJA will profit from a domicile based system, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

If they are so confident about the domicile system, why haven't they implemented it for NJI? They told us the 7/7 sched would never work. Low and behold they open a 7/7 sched for NJI. They tell us that HBAs cost an arm and a leg, yet NJI has had HBAs from the beginning.

 

[gunfyter]

If they are so confident about the domicile system, why haven't they implemented it for NJI? They told us the 7/7 sched would never work. Low and behold they open a 7/7 sched for NJI. They tell us that HBAs cost an arm and a leg, yet NJI has had HBAs from the beginning.

BINGO!

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Just out of curiosity, would living in FLL and being based in PBI be doable with NJ callout rules?

Nu

 

[netjetwife]

Yes. You can live where you like and just show at the appointed time, which varies.

 

[zman300]

If they are so confident about the domicile system, why haven't they implemented it for NJI? They told us the 7/7 sched would never work. Low and behold they open a 7/7 sched for NJI. They tell us that HBAs cost an arm and a leg, yet NJI has had HBAs from the beginning.

It makes perfect sense. We, as a group, are willing to sacrifice getting ALL the benefits you guys get in exchange for other benefits, like allowing all our employees to live where they want to. I don't get overtime pay like you do, but I do get to pack up and move anywhere I want to tomorrow; to me (and everyone else I've met in my 3 yrs here), that's priceless.

Is the domicile system fiscally sound? Maybe, maybe not. But The Man isn't going to give you everything you want to his detriment; he'll give you something with one hand and take something else with the other. He gave you the big raises you wanted...awesome! But he took away your choice of a home...ces't la vie! In the end, he always wins; that's why he's The Man. We should be grateful, 'cause when he wins, we win.

 

[netjetwife]

That analogy only works when there's a fair distribution of the winnings. That was not the case for the NJA pilots until they ratified the new CBA, and that isn't the case for many other frac pilots. Yes, compromises have to be made, but they should be made by both sides. If your side isn't sitting at the table that isn't as likely to happen. Based on the experience of many in the industry, a high number of pilots are doing way more than their share of giving... without getting enough back.

 

[xpdriver]

Yea, it might be a little confusing..I think i forgot a line. I and others don't feel it will work. But if it does work or do what mgmt wants then all that came here thinking the domicile system will go away in a couple of years will be stuck. Pilots need to accept a job here thinking that they will have to live in a domicile. That was all I was trying to say. i hope it changes!!!

Just remember BB had a master when he was playing hardball with us. Don't believe in white knights.....

 

[xpdriver]

If they are so confident about the domicile system, why haven't they implemented it for NJI? They told us the 7/7 sched would never work. Low and behold they open a 7/7 sched for NJI. They tell us that HBAs cost an arm and a leg, yet NJI has had HBAs from the beginning.

Ofcourse they told us that the hba and 7/7 would not work. they were trying to get us on 8/6 and all live in 5 domilciles..NJI is non-union and rts's little baby(soon on our list) but for now he is going to give those guys what ever to keep them non-union.

 

[TORCH67]

Everything is open for discussion in 4 years. That doesn't mean that both parties will want to discuss it. It all depends on economics (supply and demand). If they can get pilots to come to work in 5 domiciles then it will never change.

 

[Hogprint]

I agree Torch, as long as people line up to fly here, why change. On the other hand I think it will be used as a negotiating tool for the '09 arm-wrestling match. How ever the HBA pans out, it will be used as leverage by either side. I'm confident that if they want to hire as many as they say, then the HBA will open up to everyone.

 

[netjetwife]

It could get interesting if they try to close a domicile and then wanted to reopen it at a later date. There is that matter of seniority governing domicile assignment.

Didn't they originally start out with just a few gateways? I think some people are hoping the company will figure out that there are lots of cities that would make good domiciles. If they don't, it can be pointed out to them at the bargaining table. I can't imagine it not being an issue, even if it's not at the top of the list.

 

[zman300]

Netjetwife: "That analogy only works when there's a fair distribution of the winnings. That was not the case for the NJA pilots until they ratified the new CBA, and that isn't the case for many other frac pilots. Yes, compromises have to be made, but they should be made by both sides. If your side isn't sitting at the table that isn't as likely to happen. Based on the experience of many in the industry, a high number of pilots are doing way more than their share of giving... without getting enough back."

Ah, but that's the eternal question, isn't it: What IS "fair?" Is "fair" getting everything you want? Is it the employer getting everything he/she wants? It will never be fair, and if you're not happy now, you never will be.

I think it's a cultural difference between employees in the two companies (Disclaimer: at least those who post on this forum). We know we're not getting everything we want (or you have), but we're generally happy with what we have. We don't lose sleep over how we're getting screwed or how we're going to make things "fair" in the future by sitting at this table you keep referring to in your posts. Less than six months after your contract was ratified, many on this forum are still dissatisfied, already planning four or five years into the future. You might be dead tomorrow....

"Sufficient for the day is the trouble thereof."

 

[netjetwife]

Well obviously the NJ pilots didn't get everything they wanted or we wouldn't be discussing domiciles... That said, the new CBA based by a comfortable margin so that should tell you that most of the NJ families thought it was fair and are satisfied. They voted down the first pathetic TA by over 70% so that tells you just how fair they thought that offer was. Fairness isn't as difficult to judge as you seem to think.

Both parties signed the deal because it met most of their goals. A compromise was reached. The FOs wages don't meet professional standards so they have a right to be dissatisfied and look to the future. Many of my posts about going to the table are made with thoughts of Options pilots and other posts are just general encouragement for frac pilots who are getting a raw deal. I realize that those of you who aren't in that position may not relate. That's OK. The posts are not made for NJI pilots.
NJW

 

[BBJPILOT]

It could get interesting if they try to close a domicile and then wanted to reopen it at a later date. There is that matter of seniority governing domicile assignment.

Didn't they originally start out with just a few gateways? I think some people are hoping the company will figure out that there are lots of cities that would make good domiciles. If they don't, it can be pointed out to them at the bargaining table. I can't imagine it not being an issue, even if it's not at the top of the list.

What many pilots, and non-pilots at NJA or planning on coming to NJA seem to misunderstand is this concept of "closing" domiciles. The company does not have to close a Domicile to eliminate new hire pilots from "getting" to use them. On any given pilot, on any given class of pilots, the Company has sole discretion as to which of the 5 current domiciles are offered. In fact, the Company doesn't have to tell a new hire applicant, until THE OFFICIAL OFFER OF EMPLOYMENT, which Domicile he will be assigned to, and expected to report to. The "Closing" of a domicile is not likely! Why? Because if the Company elects to close a domicile, all pilots assigned to that Domicile become HBA pilots, with rights to scatter to wherever they want. They can open new Domiciles, or I suppose, open a "Closed" Domicile back up as a Domicile, but even then, all those currently living withion 90 miles would retain their ability to leave to an HBA, and only new hires would once again be required to use such a Domicile.

CLOSING of Domiciles is very unlikely, and as I said, not offering a specific Domicile to a new hire applicant is completely within the Companys rights under the CBA. If they need 20 Falcon pilots and figure they need them in the East, because of existing crewing locations, then they can only offer TEB if they wanted to. That was the whole point, to control the staffing at each Domicile. Currently, out of the "goodness of their hearts", they are informing applicants early in the game, or even letting them provide their dream list of Domiciles, but this is not required. Clearly it is in their interest to know that a new hire has read and understood the Domicile rules and that they allow, as early as posible, for an applicant to tell them that they will not come to work here if they have to go to X. So, I expect it will continue. The rumors of which Domiciles are "closed" is just that, rumor. At best, it was fact for a specific applicant on a specific date, as no Domiciles have been closed.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I predict that the DOMS will increase in number. Pilot hiring will be sucking air again soon enough. Eventually the system, as it is, will backfire on NJA in the form of inability to grow as desired due to lack of qualified meat in the seat willing to relocate.

I like to call the phenomenon "self correction".

 

[LostComm]

I predict that the DOMS will increase in number. Pilot hiring will be sucking air again soon enough. Eventually the system, as it is, will backfire on NJA in the form of inability to grow as desired due to lack of qualified meat in the seat willing to relocate.

I like to call the phenomenon "self correction".

If you are correct, it will be interesting to see what happens if a new domicile is offered. Will those hired prior to the opening be eligable to switch to that domicile on a seniority basis? Or can they open it only to new hires?

 

[TORCH67]

As of the 2/27/06 list NJA has hired 142 new pilots. At that rate they are on track for 852 pilots sitting at home waiting for training! I'm sure they will stop well short of that number! I would guess there are at least 300-400 pilots out there willing to use the 5 domiciles this year.

 

[gunfyter]

I agree with Torch. I think there will be plenty of people willing to work at the 5 Domiciles.

The Option for many people is to work at a regional instead... with less choice... and corporate isn't going to let you live anywhere.

Another option is CS but currently they hire far fewer pilots each yr.

 

[netjetwife]

But are the people that are willing to do it, the caliber of pilots that they want? Those are very low wages for such expensive cities (3 of the 5). True. You don't have to actually live there, but commuting isn't cheap and it can get old. Without a training contract there will be nothing to stop pilots from deciding that it isn't working out as easily as they thought. It still looks like an experiment to me and, personally, I hope it fails.

 

[Going2Baja]

This just in from aviationinterviews.com:

About 2 weeks before the interview they told me that only West Palm Beach and Columbus were going to be available as domiciles which was a huge bummer. They indicated that NJA was no longer going to allow the new hires to pick the domicile and we would be assigned them. Not sure what happened, but when I got the call about 2 weeks after the interview they offered me the G200 and said I could pick any of the domiciles... go figure.

 

[netjetwife]

Could it be they heard too much negative feedback from pilots like yourself that considered their plan (to assign a domicile) a huge bummer? It looks that way, doesn't it? Regardless...it pays to speak up! I hope things continue working in your favor, G2B. Good luck with your training!
NJW

 

[Going2Baja]

NJW - Thanks. The Lear is a fun a/c. Would be nice to hear from others who have recently got job offers to see what bases they were offered. Keep up the good cause!!

baja.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

U could always try USA Jet if the NJA basing thing doesn't work for you. The way the present rules are at NJA and USA Jet, USA Jet works tons better for me.

PM me if U want info.

CLiff
YIP

 

[RNObased]

Hi!

U could always try USA Jet if the NJA basing thing doesn't work for you. The way the present rules are at NJA and USA Jet, USA Jet works tons better for me.

PM me if U want info.

CLiff
YIP

Are you comparing working for USA jet to NJA??? Yikes! Two different worlds, I would move to TEB before I flew for USA jet....

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yes. For me USA Jet is possible, and NetJets in impossible.

However, if NetJets went to home basing, then NetJets would be better for me than USA Jet.

Prior to the pay increase for NetJets, I think USAJet would've been better for most pilots. Now, I think NetJets would be better-it all depends, however.

Some guys don't want to fly PAX, which is a reason not to go to NetJets.

I don't care who/what I fly. As long as it's a decent job w/ fair pay with a location that works for me.

Cliff
YIP