will net jets change bases policy?

[ThisistheDream]

now that new hires have to be based at one of the 5 cities, do people at net jets think this will always be the case or will it go back to the way it was when you could live in most major US cities. Also what can people do if they dont want to move to the base, can you acure enough frequent fliers in a few months that you could use those to get to and from your base? also is net jets willing to fly you from the city you finish in back to your home city vs. flying you back to your base if the cost is the same or less and if more will they let you pay the extra charge for the ticket. I am trying to figure out if it is at all possible to commute at netjets since we cannot jumpseat. If there are pilots there that got hired after the bases where in place and (Fly) commute on your own what do you do? thanks

 

[Ultra Grump]

now that new hires have to be based at one of the 5 cities, do people at net jets think this will always be the case or will it go back to the way it was when you could live in most major US cities.

Maybe, but don't count on it.

Also what can people do if they dont want to move to the base, can you acure enough frequent fliers in a few months that you could use those to get to and from your base?

No.

also is net jets willing to fly you from the city you finish in back to your home city vs. flying you back to your base if the cost is the same or less and if more will they let you pay the extra charge for the ticket.

Yes. You have to arrange it, though.

 

[jtf]

New guys are trying all sorts of things to try to make it work while hoping that the policy will change. It could change, but probably not soon and if it does, I would guess it would be to slowly add new domiciles and probably only enough to keep the new hire pipeline open. I've even heard that the original 5 they were letting people choose from is now down to CMH, PBI, and LAX.

Guys and gals are attempting some pretty hideous drives- many over 5 hours each way- trying to make things work. It will be really rough until they get 7 and 7 schedules, but at least that should happen fast as long as the hiring continues. Some are paying to airline themselves to their domicile then hoping to be able to fly back home at the end of the trip without ending the trip at the domicile. This could become very expensive. Some still have flight benefits from their former airlines and can do it for free as long as there is space available. I'm guessing none of these ways are going to work very well over the long run for a sizeable proportion of the people trying to do it and that there will be some extra turnover here once they decide it's not worth the hassle and/ or cost anymore. If you want the job, I would suggest moving either to one of the domiciles or to within an hour or two and plan on staying there for while. I think eventually there will be more choices, but not until the well is dry of good applicants and that will probably take a while.

 

[ThisistheDream]

if you commute what time would you have to be available on day one is it 6am or when ever they assign you trip? also what are the schedules like all 7 on 7 off or 5 on 4 off??

 

[Ultra Grump]

if you commute what time would you have to be available on day one is it 6am or when ever they assign you trip? also what are the schedules like all 7 on 7 off or 5 on 4 off??

You have to be in domicile at the report time on your brief, which you could get as late as 7pm the night prior. Provided they brief you by 2pm, you could be required to start at 12am on day 1.

If you're on the 7&7, it's just what it says. If you're on reserve, it could be anything that results in 18 days of work and your 4 requested hard days off (H days).

 

[gunfyter]

I bought airline tickets and hotel rooms for 6.5 yrs. So did hundreds of others

 

[DO-82 driver]

The new domicile system is not for the commuter. Many of us drove hours to be in position for that dreaded 1am wake upo call that may or may not have come. 91K has made things soooo much easier and to mu knowledge, Netjets is the only major fractional observing it.

If you get hired now be prepared to report to the Domicile you are hired into for quite some time.

The Company really wants to do away with the HBA system and they want to reduce all the crew bases into what we have now or maybe just a few more....they are going to fight it all the way.

Folks in the middle of the country are pretty much hosed....

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Are you down to 2 cities now or what?

I've even heard that the original 5 they were letting people choose from is now down to CMH, PBI, and LAX.

What the truth to this? One of ACPs at flexjet has been spreading this rumor around now that it is down CMH and PBI only. Since this and some other crap are being widely used in the "look what the union got NJA" propaganda, I am very interested in the facts if someone can definitively confirm or deny. Thanks.

Also, are there relocation expenses paid for new hires or bonuses for HBA eligible guys to move?

 

[DO-82 driver]

Nope...new hires have to move on their own if they want to.....

Who really knows what domiciles are open or not? Send in a resume and see what they say....

Let the ACP at Flex spread those rumors....make sure he spreads them all, like our pay raise, benefits package, crew meal program, 401K, uniform program, vacation time, sick time accrual, our 91K no call during rest policy, our fatigue policy.ect.ect.ect.....

There is a reason why NJA is the leader in the fractional business......not just from a management piont of view but from pilot's QOL point of view as well.

 

[Diesel]

I think it's down to CMH and PBI but these bases have nothing to do with the union. The union wanted more bases but the company wanted to show them how it could be done with just 5. So the union said do whatever you want. The company said fine we'll do 5 and still be able to hire 450 pilots. HAAAA

I guess if you don't study history you're doomed to repeat it. Idiots. Ever wonder why we had to go from 1 gateway to 26?

Oh well another example of the left hand (hiring) not knowing what the right hand (scheduling) needs.

 

[netjetwife]

The company will pay the moving expenses for a HBA pilot to move to a domicile but I can't see too many people ever taking them up on the offer. Once the "good deal" (apply sarcasm) is accepted the pilot can never go back into the HBA system. Certainly one of those times not to skip the fine print.

 

[CA1900]

Nope...new hires have to move on their own if they want to.....

Am I misreading the contract? Because as I interpret it, as a new-hire I would get reimbursed for moving to a domicile. From Section 15, emphasis is mine:

15.1 Eligibility for Moving Expenses:
Subject to Sections 13.2(b)(i)(2) and 13.2 (b)(ii)(2), any Crewmember on the seniority list as of the date this Agreement is executed or any new hire Crewmember will be paid moving and travel expenses in the following manner:

15.1(a) New Hires
Subject to Section 13.2(b)(i)(2), at the time the Company extends an offer of employment to a job applicant, the Company shall inform the applicant that he or she is entitled to moving expenses as set forth in this Section 13.2(b)(i)(2). Pursuant to Section 13.2(b)(i)(2) the new hire pilot’s right to moving expenses shall continue for the duration of his or her employment; provided, the new hire pilot’s right to moving expenses applies to one change of permanent residence only.

So unless I'm grossly misreading something, I should get reimbursed for moving expense if I'm hired. Is there a caveat I missed?

Thanks from a guy hoping for an interview soon!

 

[DO-82 driver]

CA1900...I stand corrected...sorry about the confusion.....I have been dealing with some new hires recently concerning their abilities to change Domiciles after being hired into one. I had that on my mind....

Sorry....

 

[Ultra Grump]

CA1900 - if you accept the payment for moving expenses, you may be locked out of the HBA system. Keep that in mind.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

15.1(a) New Hires
Subject to Section 13.2(b)(i)(2), at the time the Company extends an offer of employment to a job applicant, the Company shall inform the applicant that he or she is entitled to moving expenses as set forth in this Section 13.2(b)(i)(2). Pursuant to Section 13.2(b)(i)(2) the new hire pilot’s right to moving expenses shall continue for the duration of his or her employment; provided, the new hire pilot’s right to moving expenses applies to one change of permanent residence only



13.2(b)(i)(2) Crewmembers hired after ratification of this Agreement who are awarded a Home Base Airport designation and subsequently decide to move within ninety (90) miles of a Domicile will be assigned to that Domicile. Upon written request, the Company shall reimburse the crewmember for moving expenses as set forth in Section 15 of this Agreement. If a Crewmember elects to be reimbursed for moving expenses, the crewmember shall relinquish all rights to use a Home Base Airport, regardless of where he might subsequently move in the future




To quallify for moving expense as a new hire is if you are awarded a Home Base Airport designation. Then only if you move from your HBA to a domicile. Then you lose all rights to Home Base Airport in the future. At this time all new hires are Domicile based.

 

[SAEflyer]

Speaking of changing domociles once hired, what does anyone know about that? I am in sim training right now, and i was hired into PBI. My wife and i have recently decided to try to switch to CMH, but i haven't been able to contact anyone who knows anything about how to do this, or if it is even possible. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[Diesel]

call CRC they will take care of it or track down an answer for you.

it's the only thing that Boisture did right.

 

[ghostrider64]

No, basing is in the CBA and that is that. No changes until 2010 at the earliest.

 

[WrknStff]

On the topic, does anyone know what percentage of pilots qualify as being HBA right now? Understanding that you aren't HBA if you are flying out of one of the 5 domiciles.

I guess a ray of hope is that the CBA allows the company to set the percentage of pilots that can use HBA as long as it's not below 30%. So if the company wanted they can allow 100% of the pilots to use HBA and not have to renegotiate anything.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, and the company could also work something out that lets pilots move between domiciles if they felt it would increase their ability to hire qualified applicants. 1108 is standing by to help them out of the mess it looks like they may have gotten themselves into. I say "may" to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't look good to me. It looks like a PR person's bad dream. Just when there is a lot of excitement and interest in going to NJ, they throw the brakes on it with a domicile debacle that has experienced pilots saying "No thanks" I wasn't that interested. The FO pay won't cover living there...or commuting from here. Your generous list of 3 choices doesn't meet my family's needs. Sorry.

It's an unfortunate situation for all involved. My husband tells me that they'll be flying 14/10s for quite awhile. Apparently they could use some help out on the line. In the meantime here some of you sit wondering if you live in the wrong place. What a debacle! What an apt description.

 

[CA1900]

To quallify for moving expense as a new hire is if you are awarded a Home Base Airport designation. Then only if you move from your HBA to a domicile. Then you lose all rights to Home Base Airport in the future. At this time all new hires are Domicile based.

Hmmmmm.... I thought it sounded too good to be true. And I was so excited about not using U-haul for once in my life!

 

[netjetwife]

I'm disappointed for you, CA1900. It sounds great, initially. But the more you read, the worse it gets. The company gets to proffer a deal that makes them look good, all the while knowing very few will take them up on their offer. Another PR mistake. Things like that just hurt morale. If they aren't sincere, they shouldn't bother.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Things like that just hurt morale. If they aren't sincere, they shouldn't bother.

It has nothing to do with sincerity. It's in the contract that we voted in. As long as everyone reads the contract (current pilots AND prospective new-hires), there will be no surprises.

Not everything in the new contract was a win for us (you can't expect it to be, either), but the good outweighs the bad.

Am I a fan of new-hires being stuck in domiciles til who-knows-when? No. But it's no secret, so they shouldn't be surprised when that's exactly what happens. Same with moving expenses. They should take the time to read our contract and understand what they're in for, before accepting a job offer. Due diligence and all that.

What's truly going to bite the company in the ass is the lack of the training contract. People will come here not understanding the contract, get a type, find out that commuting won't work, and bail.

 

[netjetwife]

I understand everything you're saying, UG, and realize the fine print spells things out. I did caution pilots to read closely, did I not? My point is that the inclusion of something that is all show and no substance serves no purpose and potentially erodes the opportunity to build good will that a real offer could have made. When a benefit comes with so many strings attached that few people will be interested in it, you have to question the motivation behind it, and the attitude that generated the motive. Their unacceptable offer to pay moving expenses only highlights their true opinion of the pilot force. That being the case, they did more harm than good. With the new CBA was supposed to come a new labor-management relationship. That didn't help.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

I would send Netjets a resume tomorrow if they would allow new hire homebasing, there is no way in God's earth I would accept an LAX domicile, even with the new contract-it doesn't pay enough with SoCal's exhorbitant cost of living.

After living 14 years in LA I gave California the big goodbye because of cost of living factors, I'll just bide my time or consider other opportunities.

 

[netjetwife]

TDB, you're a living example of the problem I (and others) have been pointing out. Your valid complaint is the very reason the domicile debacle needs to fail. The NJ pilots had so much lost ground to make up for in their new CBA that it just wasn't possible to accomplish all that needed to be done at this time. The continued low FO pay and their domicile experiment are the outstanding problems that , alas, were not completely correctable. Those areas saw some progress but clearly more needs to be done. The Local is keeping a close eye on the situation and will try to salvage something from the mess if circumstances force the company to reconsider. Stay tuned. I'm sorry for you and your family that things are this way.

Best Wishes,
Netjetwife

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

TDB, you're a living example of the problem I (and others) have been pointing out. Your valid complaint is the very reason the domicile debacle needs to fail. The NJ pilots had so much lost ground to make up for in their new CBA that it just wasn't possible to accomplish all that needed to be done at this time. The continued low FO pay and their domicile experiment are the outstanding problems that , alas, were not completely correctable. Those areas saw some progress but clearly more needs to be done. The Local is keeping a close eye on the situation and will try to salvage something from the mess if circumstances force the company to reconsider. Stay tuned. I'm sorry for you and your family that things are this way.

Best Wishes,
Netjetwife

Thanks for your concern, with home basing I can afford the move to Netjets with the current contract, LAX on $39000/yr? I don't think so. So I'll wait and watch to see if policy changes.

 

[Lear70]

Don't look for the domicile basing system to "fail" anytime soon.

Talked to my buddy who recently hired on there, he asked how many applications they were getting from "qualified" pilots, and he was told "more than we could ever work through to interview".

I know of 2 or 3 people who have put in resumes, got the email response back, but never received an application yet I did, and we have almost identical backgrounds and experience.

They seem to have all they can handle right now just getting through the resumes. Remember, there's over 10,000 furloughed pilots out there right now looking for jobs, not to mention the thousands at regionals who are drooling over the new pay rates at Netjets.

Unfortunately, I don't see the "shortage" coming anytime soon, which is a shame. If you guys had home basing I'd have jumped all over it.

 

[LostComm]

Don't look for the domicile basing system to "fail" anytime soon.

Spot on I think (the above statement). There are enough people wanting/needing a job that there will be no shortages any time soon. And that's not even considering another round of furloughs, for whatever reason that may happen.

The only way domiciles will change to HBA for post CBA folks will be on the next (or subsequent) contract , and that's years away.

NJA has got something in mind with the domiciles, a "master plan" if you will. Make all the jokes you like (I'm sure I would agree), but the facts are the facts. It's the law of the land and the law is not likely to change until the pilots make it an issue and vote it so. Whether there is going to be enough solidarity for "HBA for all" vs. what may be more burning issues at the time is to be seen. Only time will tell.

Come here expecting a domicile for your career, and perhaps you may be pleasently surprised. But don't plan your life around it.

 

[Fozzy]

I would send Netjets a resume tomorrow if they would allow new hire homebasing, there is no way in God's earth I would accept an LAX domicile, even with the new contract-it doesn't pay enough with SoCal's exhorbitant cost of living.

You don't have to worry about LA. From what I am hearing LAX is not offered anymore. CLOSED. Only PBI and CMH. Kind of fun watching them dig and dig and dig their hole. I wonder when they will open their eyes. Then things will get interesting.