Will ATN/ALPA force this on their pilot group?

[dicko]

I explained this deal to some people at headquarters the other day. They said that is a hell of a deal if not more than fair. These people are 25-30 year veterans that have built this company.

Hilarious. You've redeemed yourself. :laugh:

 

[texman]

Hilarious. You've redeemed yourself. :laugh:

LOL! Hey Don't forget to vote yes!

 

[dicko]

LOL! Hey Don't forget to vote yes!

Let's vote NO together. It will be our first step as cousins. The kind you see on 'Cops'. Is there even a "No" option on a SWAPA ballot ?

Remember, No really means Yes.

 

[texman]

Let's vote NO together. It will be our first step as cousins. The kind you see on 'Cops'. Is there even a "No" option on a SWAPA ballot ?

Remember, No really means Yes.

LOL! You crazy MOFO! LOL!

 

[Britpilot]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Most SWA guys think it should have been more. And when you consider all the protections you all are getting, you're whining about a paper seniority reduction. And yes, I even mean beyond 10 years from now. As far as upgrades go, with all your Captain seat protections, doubtful many FOs from either side would be upgrading over the next 10 years.

BTW, if you're worrying about furloughs, I wouldn't. We have never furloughed, and that is one thing that GK would avoid at all costs. Even if he wouldn't, the SWAPA group would do whatever it took to avoid it as well.

I see so going from 60% to 94% is a good deal.
What protections do the stapled 650 have? I'll tell...none.
To say that you have never furloughed does not mean that you never will, does it?
There is nothing "fair and equitable" about being stapled, sorry but that's the truth. You would feel the same, I bet.
Now if this goes out to a vote, it will pass and I will live with it, won't be happy but I will live with it.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Most SWA guys think it should have been more. And when you consider all the protections you all are getting, you're whining about a paper seniority reduction.

You can beg to differ all you like, but the reality is there.

You can't tell me that going from #7 in domicile to the bottom 10% of the combined seniority list and the BOTTOM 25% IN ATL will just be "a paper seniority reduction".

I'm not saying there aren't benefits to this, but don't diminish the sacrifices many of us will have to take to make this work. I'll respect your issues if you respect mine. Sound fair?

 

[waveflyer]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

 

[Lear70]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

I'm not asking for pity.

I'm asking for the man not to minimize the hits we take on our Quality of Life and we won't minimize the issues the SWA F/O's take in the issues of upgrade.

Sounds fair enough to me, sorry it doesn't for you.

 

[On Your Six]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

WHAT??? To all of the AT pilots out there, this is the jerk who will upgrade before you and rule your life because you voted yes. Wave, you need to "Grow Up" and welcome to the "world of mergers." You treat the AT pilots like step-kids, and you are the overweight step-dad who smokes in the corner and always looks them up and down, real slow, when the kids walk into the room. Weird. The AT guys don't OWE you or SWAPA a thing, GK wanted this aquisition/merger done.


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

What??

OYS you've completely lost it dude.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

What??

OYS you've completely lost it dude.

RF

No I haven't, you guys have. Read Wave's ridiculous rant that I outlined. talk about crazy. Good Lord, World's smallest violin......


OYS

 

[slaquer5]

No I haven't, you guys have. Read Wave's ridiculous rant that I outlined. talk about crazy. Good Lord, World's smallest violin......


OYS

Yes u have

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[On Your Six]

Yes u have

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

OH-kay? Thanks Boss Hogg. BTW, what kind of phone do you use, and which service?


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

I'm not asking for pity.

I'm asking for the man not to minimize the hits we take on our Quality of Life and we won't minimize the issues the SWA F/O's take in the issues of upgrade.

Sounds fair enough to me, sorry it doesn't for you.

And that's the whole deal- the definition of "fair"- no Lear- I actually work at swa and have lived it- not remotely satisfied with a push, especially when one thing money buys at swa IS QOL. The benefits to AT guys FAR outweigh any gains any swa pilot gets - you're only making your arguments and finding little things to get rule up on to help your negotiating position. But all you've done is take Swapa pilots who were pro AT, or at least moderates- and piss us off. Now- I really don't care what happens to you- I want my union to militantly exercise every ounce of leverage against you- if for no other reason than to meet aggressive overplay with an appropriate response-

 

[Ty Webb]

Deleted.

 

[Lear70]

If making calm, rational, reasonable responses has pi$$ed you off, you might want to re-analyze your thought process.

I simply ask for mutual respect and all I get is disrespect? I may be on the outside looking in, but I don't think that's part of Southwest's culture. Maybe I missed something in the book "Nuts" that says "dominate your future coworkers, belittle and demean then into submission"...?

You're entitled to your beliefs. Don't tell us we're not entitled to ours. Neither you nor anyone has that right.

 

[waveflyer]

Good luck Lear-
You've been good- and fine on the CYA- but at some point this culture means you join the team and don't argue and fight and bit pick every term- bc you know no one's trying to screw you- very few of you are as reasonable as you- and then you want acknowledgement for having to change bases, when that could have happened regardless- there's very little gratitude for being bought by us- and in fact- I'm called arrogant for suggesting you ought to be.
I've lived NUTS, I contribute- Ive changed bases for this career, including when I got on here- but you're spinning a very lucky good thing in your career and trying to say its a sacrifice, yes- pisses me off- there are way too many in this world who'd love to be in your position to give credence to that. It's dumb and ungrateful. You guys all want us to forget that you were getting pissed on and voted overwhelmingly to strike. And now swa buying you, somehow isn't good for you. I've actually read NUTS again since this-I volunteer, and I promise- I'm not your problem- you guys come in with the slightest humility and I'll argue for you, as I have in the past. It's AT pilot attitudes that are getting an appropriate response from me and our pilot group.

Your union delaying for delay's purpose, pisses me off- PCL and the alps conflict of interest manifesting itself so predictably, pisses me off- and now I'm seeing signs of you Lear, one of the good dudes there, going on to get along and getting influenced by what you guys think you deserve. Why do you think you have this kind of leverage? Why on earth have you convinced yourself that this is a "sacrifice" bc of some short term logistics you'll have to deal with.
Again- smallest violin... Get some perspective and come in EXCITED AND HAPPY- but you can't take take take from Swapa and say you'll be anything different with swa when your on the list.

And that's the part of the culture you guys don't seem to understand: YOU MUST GIVE IN ORDER TO RECEIVE.
Do you know that, in transition, on first year pay, new hires are fully expected to plan AND FUND the next new hire party- none of the guys making big money- it's on us! They want us to own this culture from day 1. Same day, we're fully expected, no matter what our finances, to donate $100/each to charity as a class. These are small gestures to an overall theme that it is not about YOU and YOUR selfish situation- you're job is to take care of everyone you see, and by default- you will be taken care of by everyone else. Selfishness breaks down over time- selflessness builds- it creates far in excess of what's put in. And 5 pilots in and around my class were let go bc they didn't have the attitude- and showed entitlement.
So though your pilots' and ALPA beliefs, attitudes, and actions may be totally appropriate if you were merging w/ any other carrier- but the me first ethic you guys are showing is the worst move you could make.
And I'm positive that's in NUTS.
So again- good luck Lear- everyone wants to help the beaten dog- until it shows too much a tendency to bite.

 

[redflyer65]

Deleted due to unrelenting profanity.



Sent from Android 5G

 

[Metrojet]

11 year SWA FO flying with 6 year former AAI CP, wrong in every sense of the word and an arbitrator would see it the same way...the AIP deal is a great deal for the junior AAI CPS (especially the 74 guys that upgraded since the snapshot)...every FO (AAI and SWA) are paying the price for the 815 retention slots protected to 2020...disgusting but negotiated...

Madjack

Don't be so sure an arbitrator would see it that way - ask Mr. Nicolau what he did to the US East FO's who are all mostly senior to a 6 year US West Captain.

Metrojet

 

[Lear70]

Good luck Lear-
You've been good- and fine on the CYA- but at some point this culture means you join the team and don't argue and fight and bit pick every term- bc you know no one's trying to screw you- very few of you are as reasonable as you- and then you want acknowledgement for having to change bases, when that could have happened regardless- there's very little gratitude for being bought by us- and in fact- I'm called arrogant for suggesting you ought to be.
I've lived NUTS, I contribute- Ive changed bases for this career, including when I got on here- but you're spinning a very lucky good thing in your career and trying to say its a sacrifice, yes- pisses me off- there are way too many in this world who'd love to be in your position to give credence to that. It's dumb and ungrateful. You guys all want us to forget that you were getting pissed on and voted overwhelmingly to strike. And now swa buying you, somehow isn't good for you. I've actually read NUTS again since this- and I promise- I'm not your problem-
I'm just saying your union delaying pisaes me off- PCL pisses me off and now I'm seeing signs of you Lear, one of the good dudes there, going on to get along and getting influenced by what you guys think you deserve. Why do you think you have this kind of leverage? Why on earth have you convinced yourself that this is a sacrifice bc of some short term logistics you'll have to deal with.
Again- smallest violin... Get some perspective and come in EXCITED AND HAPPY- but you can't take take take from Swapa and say you'll be anything different with swa when your on the list.

My friend, I understand your frustration. Truly I do. But getting mad at me doesn't help.

I'm one of the only people on our private web board even TALKING about the positive way many of the issues were closed up in the language. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the list itself; I think it sucks. So do our Merger Committee members, they'll tell you as much. Just as I know many of your F/O's hate the protections that got built in. There's something in there for everyone to hate.

I understand all of that, but alienating one of the only people who is rationally examining the language and providing a "moderate" viewpoint MIGHT not be the best approach.

 

[redflyer65]

I think Lear has become more moderate over the years than what he was in the past. I believe that once a Southwest employee he would do all he could to further the cause of Southwest.

That being said, it is a tough pill to swallow to lose that 'realitive base seniority', but unfortunately with Gary buying AAI, it kind of - is what it is. How hard do the AAI pilots fight for arbitration and during arbitration? And does that angst, energy and money improve the end result for them? I'm not sure it does...same for the SW side. If the MEC sends it out, it think it will pass on both sides and it would be an excellent point to put it behind us.

There are alot more militant members on both sides of this equation than either Lear or Wave. I guarantee it. There are postives and negatives on both sides of this AIP. Which ones are we going to focus on? Everyone's different.

RF

 

[GuppyWN]

Lear,

If it makes you feel better I've changed bases probably a dozen times in the past 5 years. Half of them not by choice!

And you're going to live in a bubble for 9 YEARS! That's a loooooong time to be insulated in this industry.

Thanks for participating,
Gup

 

[Max Powers]

Lear,

If it makes you feel better I've changed bases probably a dozen times in the past 5 years. Half of them not by choice!

And you're going to live in a bubble for 9 YEARS! That's a loooooong time to be insulated in this industry.

Thanks for participating,
Gup

Seriously????? I thought it was all rainbows and sunshine over there. So after 6 years you want me to be stapled so I can enjoy that. Presently I'm holding 19 off all weekends and holidays - making 110k a year. So how is this new deal a windfall for the aai pilot?? Answer - It Ain't!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Got any plans for that PCL?

You really think I would sue ALPA? Harming ALPA only serves to harm the profession.

 

[Bake]

Max, I agree. Please vote NO, I am.

 

[On Your Six]

Hilarity ensues. Just try to read these posts by Waveflyer, Redflyer, and GUP. These SWA FOs are trying to persuade the AT pilots to take the deal, which many people think stinks. Even Wave wants "gratitude" for SWA buying AT.......LOL! Did he authorize the purchase? He thinks so... You Corndogs are hilarious! Please don't fall for this Airtran pilots, please! If you don't like it, vote no. The process agreement states the next steps you can take, signed by GK himself.



OYS

 

[Pilot Knob]

So does this mean no more roundups?

 

[Bake]

OYS, I agree with you, vote NO and let's send this to the judges. From a SWA fo

 

[On Your Six]

OYS, I agree with you, vote NO and let's send this to the judges. From a SWA fo

If the Airtran guys don't like it, they should. Great attempt at reverse psychology, though.


OYS

 

[waveflyer]

You really think I would sue ALPA? Harming ALPA only serves to harm the profession.

I don't see you suing ALPA....SWA and Swapa are another story. Your undying loyalty for ALPA at some point will reach a conflict of interest if you want to be a Swapa pilot. (as if it's NOT already...)