Will ATN/ALPA force this on their pilot group?

[PCL_128]

Is there any truth to the rumor that a law suit has been filed against/threatened if AAI ALPA/MEC withholds the AIP from membership vote? on the AIP??

No lawsuit has been filed, and I haven't heard anything about a lawsuit being threatened. I would be surprised if lawsuits weren't filed after all of this is done, though, regardless of which way it goes. Lawsuits always result from seniority integrations. It's just a given.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Yes, I'd like an answer to this, too.

We've all been hearing the sob stories about sitting weekend reserve commuting across the country. What has been conveniently left out of the whining, though, is that 2/3 of the AT pilots are on the 717, and with the seat locks, those guys will be maintaining a far better lifestyle than they've been letting on, since they won't have to fight SWA guys for seniority in those seats. Even after the seat locks expire in 3 years, the wonderful SWAPA contract precludes any SWA pilot displacing a sitting former AT guy from their seat, thus making the seat and equipment protections pretty much indefinite, barring a reduction in overall manning, which is unlikely.

Someone else asked what SWA pilots are losing in this deal. Well, I and others are gaining a maximum 9% increase in seniority, but with no chance of upgrading for the foreseeable future, as we will not be growing, but simply assimilating the AT group and operation into ours. So, sounds like the AT guys (with the exception of the few 737 pilots who are downsized out of ATL) will be losing nothing in QOL, and yet receiving huge financial and benefits gains (no more $500/month for medical, eh?). SWA pilots get a small gain in seniority that does jack squat.

This is all very valid. I think a lot of the AAI pilots QOL might actually increase with the multiple smaller bases that are on the way. For the all AAI guys on the 717 and the 737 pilots in ATL they will still be bidding only against other AAI pilots because no SWA pilot can get into those places. That covers the majority of the AAI group. The only ones who will be bidding against SWA pilots will be the 737 pilots pushed out of ATL. Most of the seniority gains and losses on both sides are on paper only and won't have much effect on our monthly bidding.

 

[waveflyer]

No lawsuit has been filed, and I haven't heard anything about a lawsuit being threatened. I would be surprised if lawsuits weren't filed after all of this is done, though, regardless of which way it goes. Lawsuits always result from seniority integrations. It's just a given.

Got any plans for that PCL?

 

[Ty Webb]

Still waiting for the final language, but according to rumor, the 717 will not be operated under the SWA scheduling rules. It may also lose some/many of the scheduling protections in our CBA. This would mean that their seniority would not change, per se, but their bases, scheduling, and protections could change.

If true, this is but one example of why it takes time to nail down the language so everyone knows what they are agreeing to (or not).

 

[madjack]

11 year SWA FO flying with 6 year former AAI CP, wrong in every sense of the word and an arbitrator would see it the same way...the AIP deal is a great deal for the junior AAI CPS (especially the 74 guys that upgraded since the snapshot)...every FO (AAI and SWA) are paying the price for the 815 retention slots protected to 2020...disgusting but negotiated...

 

[Britpilot]

11 year SWA FO flying with 6 year former AAI CP, wrong in every sense of the word and an arbitrator would see it the same way

And so is stapling 650 AAI FO'S.

 

[Fubijaakr]

And so is stapling 650 AAI FO'S and banning them from upgrading for a decade.

Fixed it for you. Well said!

 

[texman]

And so is stapling 650 AAI FO'S.

Hey at least 200 are not, and your captains keep their seat. I explained this deal to some people at headquarters the other day. They said that is a hell of a deal if not more than fair. These people are 25-30 year veterans that have built this company.

 

[Flycatcher99]

And so is stapling 650 AAI FO'S.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Most SWA guys think it should have been more. And when you consider all the protections you all are getting, you're whining about a paper seniority reduction. And yes, I even mean beyond 10 years from now. As far as upgrades go, with all your Captain seat protections, doubtful many FOs from either side would be upgrading over the next 10 years.

BTW, if you're worrying about furloughs, I wouldn't. We have never furloughed, and that is one thing that GK would avoid at all costs. Even if he wouldn't, the SWAPA group would do whatever it took to avoid it as well.

 

[dicko]

Mr. dick,

Can you explain the QOL drop?

Dearest Tex,

Yes I can. It would take too long. You wouldn't understand and you actually don't care.

Clever play on words by the way .... Well played, Witty stuff.

 

[dicko]

I explained this deal to some people at headquarters the other day. They said that is a hell of a deal if not more than fair. These people are 25-30 year veterans that have built this company.

Hilarious. You've redeemed yourself. :laugh:

 

[texman]

Hilarious. You've redeemed yourself. :laugh:

LOL! Hey Don't forget to vote yes!

 

[dicko]

LOL! Hey Don't forget to vote yes!

Let's vote NO together. It will be our first step as cousins. The kind you see on 'Cops'. Is there even a "No" option on a SWAPA ballot ?

Remember, No really means Yes.

 

[texman]

Let's vote NO together. It will be our first step as cousins. The kind you see on 'Cops'. Is there even a "No" option on a SWAPA ballot ?

Remember, No really means Yes.

LOL! You crazy MOFO! LOL!

 

[Britpilot]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Most SWA guys think it should have been more. And when you consider all the protections you all are getting, you're whining about a paper seniority reduction. And yes, I even mean beyond 10 years from now. As far as upgrades go, with all your Captain seat protections, doubtful many FOs from either side would be upgrading over the next 10 years.

BTW, if you're worrying about furloughs, I wouldn't. We have never furloughed, and that is one thing that GK would avoid at all costs. Even if he wouldn't, the SWAPA group would do whatever it took to avoid it as well.

I see so going from 60% to 94% is a good deal.
What protections do the stapled 650 have? I'll tell...none.
To say that you have never furloughed does not mean that you never will, does it?
There is nothing "fair and equitable" about being stapled, sorry but that's the truth. You would feel the same, I bet.
Now if this goes out to a vote, it will pass and I will live with it, won't be happy but I will live with it.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Most SWA guys think it should have been more. And when you consider all the protections you all are getting, you're whining about a paper seniority reduction.

You can beg to differ all you like, but the reality is there.

You can't tell me that going from #7 in domicile to the bottom 10% of the combined seniority list and the BOTTOM 25% IN ATL will just be "a paper seniority reduction".

I'm not saying there aren't benefits to this, but don't diminish the sacrifices many of us will have to take to make this work. I'll respect your issues if you respect mine. Sound fair?

 

[waveflyer]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

 

[Lear70]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

I'm not asking for pity.

I'm asking for the man not to minimize the hits we take on our Quality of Life and we won't minimize the issues the SWA F/O's take in the issues of upgrade.

Sounds fair enough to me, sorry it doesn't for you.

 

[On Your Six]

Lear- you're a smart dude-
You got your niche in MCO for a short while- you're complaining about reality in the airlines and attributing it to this merger. If you're in the bottom 25% in ATL then if we didn't buy you and a whole bunch of guys decided to move down to FLorida - you'd have been pushed down in that scenario too.
That last argument goes in my "grow up"" welcome to airline life" file.
No, you guys aren't all big fish in little ponds anymore. Sorry that didn't work out. But I know absolutely no one who feels bad for your guys situation- especially with a few hundred friends who are just hoping that you guys somehow push too hard and we hire off the street to replace you. Hell, they're just hoping to get an interview to be at the bottom of ALL of us. You know, part of those 8000 well qualified pilots who would be excited to "sacrifice" like you.
:-/
Good lord- the smallest violin man...

WHAT??? To all of the AT pilots out there, this is the jerk who will upgrade before you and rule your life because you voted yes. Wave, you need to "Grow Up" and welcome to the "world of mergers." You treat the AT pilots like step-kids, and you are the overweight step-dad who smokes in the corner and always looks them up and down, real slow, when the kids walk into the room. Weird. The AT guys don't OWE you or SWAPA a thing, GK wanted this aquisition/merger done.


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

What??

OYS you've completely lost it dude.

RF