Why would a RJ Capt. leave for CAL, DAL, UAL, UAW, or NW?

[Alchemy]

To answer your question, skip the compensation section and read your scheduling section. Then go read a few of the LCC's and the major's scheduling section. You are comparing apples to dog sh1t. Not only will everyone fly over guarantee at the airlines you mentioned, they will do it with scheduling flexibility a regional could never dream about. I am not slamming you, the pay rates in the industry are disgraceful and will never get back to where they once were, but QOL is a night and day improvement once you jump ship from the regionals. Good luck where you end up.

Actually I would put xjet's scheduling section up against most of the LCC's and many of the major's. I know for a fact that it's much better than CAL's. I'm not trying to brag, it's simply the truth. Unfortunately you can see where this contract has landed xjet in terms of CPA flying, it puts a huge target on your back even with payrates that weren't and still aren't industry leading for the equipment. That is the main detriment of being a regional pilot.....if you negotiate anything decent you are simply drop-in replaceable by another group that looks more appealing.

Xjet is what it is, and I see no reason to stay there unless you're over 40 and in the top 25% of seniority (or aren't qualified for a major, like me), same with skywest, comair, asa, republic, wisconisn, eagle, etc etc etc. Barring that it still just doesn't make a lot of sense financially or quality of life-wise.

 

[Non Union]

Actually I would put xjet's scheduling section up against most of the LCC's and many of the major's. I know for a fact that it's much better than CAL's. I'm not trying to brag, it's simply the truth.

Ain't gonna stay 'dat way for long, dude. Sorry.

 

[puddlejumper101]

to each their own...but I am on year one at Southwest and will make more here or break even on year one at Southwest than on year 7 at that lovely regional in ATL. Thats just pay...lets don't even discuss scheduling. First month out on the line at Southwest was better than any schedule I had ever had at America's S##i!!est Airline in 7 years. Benefits? No comparison except DAL flight bennies were pretty good...but who cares. Long story short...unless you are over 40 or maybe 45...it's a no brainner...I can only speak for Southwest though...don't know much about the other majors and LCCs hiring. the QOL is another world...it really is...and I commute. I don't even want to imagine how nice it is to live in domicile.

 

[N2264J]

SJS is an illness not all of us suffers from

Are there never any Shiny New Jets at the mainline?

Is SJS an affliction only suffered by regional pilots?

 

[Lake Alice]

We have that at B6 as well. Thats one of the phrases you'll here the blue juice guys saying. "But you're getting to fly new equipment!".

 

[Vaquero]

I think if you're truly happy and comfy at a regional, why leave? I would say the only reason for leaving would be for the money, but even that is coming up short these days.

I don't know about UAL and CAL, but an 8th year MD80 f/o at AA is right at $100/hr, and next year it'll be $104/hr. Granted, these are 30% less than what we used to make, but a HECK of a lot more than what I would've made as an 8th year ACA pilot. And if we get close to what we want with the next contract, we should be at close to $120/hr on 8th year pay. Throw in the trip/duty rigs, our A and B fund (if it doesn't go away) and overall quality of life and you have a pretty attractive offer in most cases.

If I was still at a regional today, I'd still want to move on just to get out of that "third world pilot" mentality that I experienced on a daily basis when I was there. It sucked being looked down upon by other "real" airline pilots. Plus, I couldn't stand the overall regional mentality and depending on the major's code share affiliation.

But like everyone else said, it really depends on your situation. If you are middle aged, pretty senior and comfy at the regionals, it might not make financial sense to leave.

JMO, 73

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

 

[aa73]

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

Vaquero,

I think you took my "third world pilot" expression a little out of context. I was not referring to other airlines outside of the US - I was referring to the belittling that most major airline pilots would throw me with their holier than thou attitudes as they passed me on the concourse, or jumpseating. "Oh, you're just a commuter pilot flying 29 passengers in a "little" Jetstream..." "I am a "real" airline pilot because I fly 737s" or whatever. Sorry if I offended you with that term. What I really meant to say was, I was often treated as "less of a pilot" since I was a commuter/regional pilot. It always ticked me off.

p.s. I grew up in Europe, so I know dang well what the foreign airline pilots make.

regards, 73

 

[Vaquero]

got it, thanks.

 

[iluvetops]

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

This is very interesting!!!We have a few pilots from Mexicana and AeroMexico here in the desert but they all came to Dubai to fly Shiny New Jets and for more bucks!!!

Why would any one want to leave a US 220/year for a mere US 110/Year B777/Airbus captain job, and if they start as an FO it would only be about US 60/year!!!!

 

[ExAF]

No Desert For Me

Why would any one want to leave a US 220/year for a mere US 110/Year B777/Airbus captain job, and if they start as an FO it would only be about US 60/year!!!!

I don't know...Maybe they don't want to live in the desert? I'll never go back to that part of the world if I can help it. No job is worth it to me. I'd rather live in a van down by the river. But then again, to each his own.

 

[whymeworry?]

It's all about sucking it up for a while and looking past your nose. Meaning, the pay hit is temporary in the grand scheme of a career. Sure an XJT guy with 8-10 years will do $100K, and he/ she deserves every penny of that money. But that is pretty much the ceiling for a line pilot at the regionals. Some guys in the training dept will make $120-150 but they're putting 24-26 days per month of work to acheive that.

There are ways to make more money at the majors than what Airline Pilot Central will lead you to believe. Futher, at CAL, most lines are 85 to 90 hrs since we are so short staffed. If you bid B756 in EWR you can fly 120 Hrs as IRO, should you wish to make some extra bucks. At third year pay of $72/ hr (B757), that's $8640/ mo. A buddy of mine who is a bottom line holder turned his March line into 120 hrs of widebody pay (which is approx $11 per hour more) by simply trip trading and whoring himself to death... I believe he finished the month with 8 days off. To each his own, I couldn't work that hard. So what were you saying about RJ pilots making more?

XJT has the best contract out there, one that has been enhanced twice since 9/11, but a lot of other reionals are trailing XJT negotiating performance.. The majors in general, by contrast, have taken two pay hits during that period. We are all now finally taking the gloves off for the next round of negotiations. In other words, expect big pay rewards in the next 2-4 years as we acheive post-concessionary contracts. The gap between regional pay and major pay will grow.

Looking out 20-25 years... a 30-35 yr old major pilot hired today will retire with $1.5 to $1.7 million. The retirement issue has now been fixed and the contributions going forward are in OUR NAMES... they cannot be stolen or cancelled by the company, no different that your 401K. Throw in the extra $1 million in earnings a major pilot will make during a 25 yr career over an RJ pilot and the argument to stay regional becomes background noise, no offence, just the facts. Bigger equipment, better layovers, international, blah, blah, blah... that stuff is just personal preference. I flew a lot of international in my previous career so I am not the least bit excited by the international flying argument but some guys want that experience, something you won't get to do at a regional... save Mexico and Canada.

BTW, I have nothing but utmost respect for our RJ brothers and sisters... especially those who are deciding to stay as a career. They have made a personal choice and I repsect that. Y'all deserve even higher pay rates and should certainly keep your better work rules. I am merely trying to dispell the misnomer that APC pay rates are the final word. One thing is for sure, you're going to have to accept being uncomfortable for a few years in order to reap these kinds of rewards I speak of at a major, i.e. start all over. But waiting will just delay the inevitable if you indeed want to make a lot more money than an RJ pilot.

Nothing wrong with remaining an RJ pilot for a career. An airplane is an airplane. But you will indeed make a lot more money at a Major and it won't take 5, 10, or 15 years to reap that reward... more like 3.

 

[labbats]

I wonder how long it will take for SWA to drop their PIC mins under 1000???

cliff
YIP

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=97130

 

[ByeUSAir]

You are comparing the wrong years!

Why not compare the last year you will work at an airline. Compare your last year as a regional guy who hit 60 years old today to a Fedex, SWA, CAL, UPS, wide body Capt who also hit 60 today.

You need to realize that every year you stay at a regional airline that is one less year you will have as a wide body Capt at a major airline.

 

[rumrnr78]

The regionals have never been meant to be career. period.

 

[Britpilot]

If you are middle aged, pretty senior and comfy at the regionals, it might not make financial sense to leave.

JMO, 73

I am middle aged, was senior and comfy at a regional, made good money... and I left for a LCC job.

It was still an easy decision for me. I will make up the pay, if all goes well, and my quality of life has improved both for myself and the family. Not a bad deal.

 

[nonstop]

Actually, what you need to compare is not pay rate but gross earnings and the years you earn that money. For instance, making $100,000 at 30 is far more significant than making it at 40. Why? Because assuming you save 25% of that income at 30 it has 30 years to compound. $25,000 in a broadly diversified portfolio should reach approximately $400,000 by the time you're 60. Save that $25,000 at 40 instead it'll be $168,000 at 60. That's using a historical 10% broad market return, please lets not get into the "I can do better/worse with my investments" argument.

So realize we're not just talking about not "sucking it up" we're talking about missing out on some of your young prime earnings years. It takes a lot more to break even with low early career earnings, than just breaking even.

There's a lot of assumptions everyone can make here about the direction pay will go with airline X vs airline Y, but the sad truth of the matter is it's not as easy a decision as it used to be.

 

[list2002]

The sad thing is a lot of pilots who have "paid thier dues" and want to move on are getting passsed up this hiring spree.
I think the majors like the new regional FO's for security in future negotiations. Knowing they will have no PIC to be marketable anywhere else, they got lifers right off the bat. When times get tough the low seniority new hires are only left with losing their jobs and trying to get hired with K's of SIC, or accepting what the company gives them.
Why would a company want to hire a contract savy 8 year captainf from the regionals?

 

[jumppilot]

I can't believe this thread made it this far...

You all are a bunch of idiots for taking the bait. Why even respond to this? It is in the majors forum, after all!

-A happy 76 driver who is glad he left the regionals.