Why would a RJ Capt. leave for CAL, DAL, UAL, UAW, or NW?

[Wesb737fo]

So I was doing some looking around on airlinepilot central, and I just can't believe those FO payscales. What makes it worse is the fact that they have lower guarentees than regionals have. DAL has a 65 hr guarentee, Continental has a 72 hr guarentee, AA has a 64. Then you look at those payrates and you are making less than an RJ captain for a long long time. Since the upgrades seem to look like atleast 10 yrs (except CAL) why is it that everyone is jumping at the majors. The FO pay is AWFUL. At United, a 2nd year FO will make $42,000. a 5th yr FO will make $65,000. In contrast lets say your a 5 year Captain at ExpressJet. You will bring home $75,000 easy. I would say most people at XJT get between 85 and 90 hrs of credit a month. So I guess XJT guys make more than Legacy drivers. That makes SICK. I don't know how ya'll do it. PLEASE tell me that you atleast get more than 65 HOURS a month of credit. Otherwise I guess the LCC's are not that bad of an option. Atleast you get more than 65 hrs of pay. And you can upgrade in 2-3 yrs. Maybe I am missing something here, but how can you be in this industry for as many yrs as it takes to get to a Major, but make less than you did flying your regional jet.

My rant is over.

PS-(I DID NOT PROOF READ THIS SO THERE MAY BE SPELLING ERRORS)

Wow...five pages of replies...I don't have time to read them all so pardon me if I repeated some others thoughts....

1. I bet you don't work for Mesa

2. I bet you haven't been around long enough to realize what you are saying.

3. Regional Airline Management's love guys like yourself.


Bottome line...it sucks to work for a regional carrier.

 

[Quimby]

So I was doing some looking around on airlinepilot central, and I just can't believe those FO payscales. What makes it worse is the fact that they have lower guarentees than regionals have. DAL has a 65 hr guarentee, Continental has a 72 hr guarentee, AA has a 64. Then you look at those payrates and you are making less than an RJ captain for a long long time. Since the upgrades seem to look like atleast 10 yrs (except CAL) why is it that everyone is jumping at the majors. The FO pay is AWFUL. At United, a 2nd year FO will make $42,000. a 5th yr FO will make $65,000. In contrast lets say your a 5 year Captain at ExpressJet. You will bring home $75,000 easy. I would say most people at XJT get between 85 and 90 hrs of credit a month. So I guess XJT guys make more than Legacy drivers. That makes SICK. I don't know how ya'll do it. PLEASE tell me that you atleast get more than 65 HOURS a month of credit. Otherwise I guess the LCC's are not that bad of an option. Atleast you get more than 65 hrs of pay. And you can upgrade in 2-3 yrs. Maybe I am missing something here, but how can you be in this industry for as many yrs as it takes to get to a Major, but make less than you did flying your regional jet.

My rant is over.

PS-(I DID NOT PROOF READ THIS SO THERE MAY BE SPELLING ERRORS)

You don't even know what you don't know yet. Save your post, go back & reread it in a couple of years. Let us know what you think about staying then.

Don't bypass an upgrade either.

 

[PuffDriver]

19 years at Eagle, in my very early 40's.

Last 4 years averaged $122,00/year and 13 days off per month. Not a single junior man, although a few reroutes when last turn canceled. If I flew my base schedule only, I'd be around $95,000/year and average 16 days off/month. Eagle matches 87.5 % of the 8% I put in my 401(k), next year a 100% match. Started that in 1991 and now at $368,000 (got two other funds totalling almost twice that). Drive to work.

Why would I dump that for a 737 at EWR, commuting on a quarter of the pay, no better of a schedule, most likely if I did keep my pension it would be watered down, schedule worse, 401(k) worse and no job security ?

Ah what do I know.................Just another clueless RJ chump who isn't a REAL airline pilot.

But hey, that's o.k. Call me anything you want as I go to the bank with $10 grand every month (not killing myself doing it, either). At this point, it's my best bet. Almost 1 million in investments means I've funded my own retirement in 18-23 years (projected to need 2.6 million-wow !). If Eagle goes south, I'm still in failry good shape.

Keep your 737. I'll leave that slot to the 27 year old, 3000 hour RJ F/O who can make something more out of it.

I can think of a lot of reasons. 1) an even better schedule--as in working 9 days a month 2) even more pay--as in 160K
3) even better destinations and layovers--as in sipping Italian wine in Rome 4) even better equipment--as in 777, 787

Enjoy your RJ, and I will enjoy my 777. It's all about personal choice after all--or about you trying to brag.

PapaSiera--believe me when I say suck it up and go to a legacy or a top cargo carrier. 5 airlines have taught me that. The legacies likely have bottomed, and if they tank further everyone else will as well.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Is anyone worried about the fact that CAL cancelled 1/4 of Express RJ fleet, and will possibly do the same two years from now. Quite frankly I would be a bit nervous if I worked at Express and was planning to stay their for my career. Express has many challenges ahead as a company, and the future their is certainly not guaranteed anymore than anywhere else.

You are TOTALLY WRONG! Independence Proved So. Or, wait a minute... um.........

 

[StaySeated]

To answer your question, skip the compensation section and read your scheduling section. Then go read a few of the LCC's and the major's scheduling section. You are comparing apples to dog sh1t. Not only will everyone fly over guarantee at the airlines you mentioned, they will do it with scheduling flexibility a regional could never dream about. I am not slamming you, the pay rates in the industry are disgraceful and will never get back to where they once were, but QOL is a night and day improvement once you jump ship from the regionals. Good luck where you end up.

 

[Alchemy]

To answer your question, skip the compensation section and read your scheduling section. Then go read a few of the LCC's and the major's scheduling section. You are comparing apples to dog sh1t. Not only will everyone fly over guarantee at the airlines you mentioned, they will do it with scheduling flexibility a regional could never dream about. I am not slamming you, the pay rates in the industry are disgraceful and will never get back to where they once were, but QOL is a night and day improvement once you jump ship from the regionals. Good luck where you end up.

Actually I would put xjet's scheduling section up against most of the LCC's and many of the major's. I know for a fact that it's much better than CAL's. I'm not trying to brag, it's simply the truth. Unfortunately you can see where this contract has landed xjet in terms of CPA flying, it puts a huge target on your back even with payrates that weren't and still aren't industry leading for the equipment. That is the main detriment of being a regional pilot.....if you negotiate anything decent you are simply drop-in replaceable by another group that looks more appealing.

Xjet is what it is, and I see no reason to stay there unless you're over 40 and in the top 25% of seniority (or aren't qualified for a major, like me), same with skywest, comair, asa, republic, wisconisn, eagle, etc etc etc. Barring that it still just doesn't make a lot of sense financially or quality of life-wise.

 

[Non Union]

Actually I would put xjet's scheduling section up against most of the LCC's and many of the major's. I know for a fact that it's much better than CAL's. I'm not trying to brag, it's simply the truth.

Ain't gonna stay 'dat way for long, dude. Sorry.

 

[puddlejumper101]

to each their own...but I am on year one at Southwest and will make more here or break even on year one at Southwest than on year 7 at that lovely regional in ATL. Thats just pay...lets don't even discuss scheduling. First month out on the line at Southwest was better than any schedule I had ever had at America's S##i!!est Airline in 7 years. Benefits? No comparison except DAL flight bennies were pretty good...but who cares. Long story short...unless you are over 40 or maybe 45...it's a no brainner...I can only speak for Southwest though...don't know much about the other majors and LCCs hiring. the QOL is another world...it really is...and I commute. I don't even want to imagine how nice it is to live in domicile.

 

[N2264J]

SJS is an illness not all of us suffers from

Are there never any Shiny New Jets at the mainline?

Is SJS an affliction only suffered by regional pilots?

 

[Lake Alice]

We have that at B6 as well. Thats one of the phrases you'll here the blue juice guys saying. "But you're getting to fly new equipment!".

 

[Vaquero]

I think if you're truly happy and comfy at a regional, why leave? I would say the only reason for leaving would be for the money, but even that is coming up short these days.

I don't know about UAL and CAL, but an 8th year MD80 f/o at AA is right at $100/hr, and next year it'll be $104/hr. Granted, these are 30% less than what we used to make, but a HECK of a lot more than what I would've made as an 8th year ACA pilot. And if we get close to what we want with the next contract, we should be at close to $120/hr on 8th year pay. Throw in the trip/duty rigs, our A and B fund (if it doesn't go away) and overall quality of life and you have a pretty attractive offer in most cases.

If I was still at a regional today, I'd still want to move on just to get out of that "third world pilot" mentality that I experienced on a daily basis when I was there. It sucked being looked down upon by other "real" airline pilots. Plus, I couldn't stand the overall regional mentality and depending on the major's code share affiliation.

But like everyone else said, it really depends on your situation. If you are middle aged, pretty senior and comfy at the regionals, it might not make financial sense to leave.

JMO, 73

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

 

[aa73]

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

Vaquero,

I think you took my "third world pilot" expression a little out of context. I was not referring to other airlines outside of the US - I was referring to the belittling that most major airline pilots would throw me with their holier than thou attitudes as they passed me on the concourse, or jumpseating. "Oh, you're just a commuter pilot flying 29 passengers in a "little" Jetstream..." "I am a "real" airline pilot because I fly 737s" or whatever. Sorry if I offended you with that term. What I really meant to say was, I was often treated as "less of a pilot" since I was a commuter/regional pilot. It always ticked me off.

p.s. I grew up in Europe, so I know dang well what the foreign airline pilots make.

regards, 73

 

[Vaquero]

got it, thanks.

 

[iluvetops]

Apparently you have no clue that some latin american airlines make more than airlines such as AA, UA even WN. Take Aeromexico for example, a captain on the 73 takes in around 220 US a year. 777 pilots even more. Find some other expression now if you want to talk low pay cause seems like even " third world country" pilots make more. Sad ain't it.

This is very interesting!!!We have a few pilots from Mexicana and AeroMexico here in the desert but they all came to Dubai to fly Shiny New Jets and for more bucks!!!

Why would any one want to leave a US 220/year for a mere US 110/Year B777/Airbus captain job, and if they start as an FO it would only be about US 60/year!!!!

 

[ExAF]

No Desert For Me

Why would any one want to leave a US 220/year for a mere US 110/Year B777/Airbus captain job, and if they start as an FO it would only be about US 60/year!!!!

I don't know...Maybe they don't want to live in the desert? I'll never go back to that part of the world if I can help it. No job is worth it to me. I'd rather live in a van down by the river. But then again, to each his own.