Why the H is ALPA Advocating MPL Licensing?!

[Flopgut]

We might as well not even get into this. You can't seem to let the Age 60 issue go, and your hatred for Capt. Prater seems to stem from that. I've worked with him quite a bit, and needless to say, I find your opinion of his character to be completely inaccurate.

What's ironic is that I'm acting exactly like John would if he got the short end of 65. And exactly like you'll act when he fully reveals himself to you.

 

[MILPILOT17]

The MPL could be a good program if combined with some sort of mentorship program pairing senior Capts with low time pilots. Kind of a grow your own opportunity where the company saves money on wages, the low time pilot pays to sit in the right seat, but also gets to mentor the individual to the companies own standards. It could be a winner.

I've got a great idea; we take two people off the street that know nothing about flying, tell them it's just like a video game, put instructordude in the back with his seat belt securely fastened and off they go! It won't be pretty, but who cares?

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I disagree that the vote wasn't legit, but I agree that it wasn't going anywhere until ALPA pushed it. I think we could have delayed this at least another 2-5 years. But that's not what the EXCL and EXBD required, unfortunately.

This makes me VERY angry. Prater and his buddies sold us out on age 65 and now will do the same with MPL. The membership did not want age 65 and we don't want MPL but I guess it doesn't really matter. ALPA leadership will do whatever they want regardless of what we want. I am "Takin it in the back" care of John Prater!

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I've got a great idea; we take two people off the street that know nothing about flying, tell them it's just like a video game, put instructordude in the back with his seat belt securely fastened and off they go! It won't be pretty, but who cares?

I nominate PCL_128 and John Prater for the back seat. Tie them up and gag them. I'll grab a bowl of popcorn. We'll see how these guys like being taking for a ride.

 

[felixf16]

Then what?

You wanna know "then what?" Rez? I'll tell you "then what." You refuse to put up with the nonsense. As a group. Indeed, the whole idea of collective bargaining is to refuse to put up with the nonsense - and to oppose management and whatever political forces they may amass -together.

Throughout my experience, ALPA has been wholly ineffective in building the cohesion necessary among pilots - as a guild - to act in opposition to those forces. Such describes ALPA's abject failure. Such also is the reason I walked away from this profession after 22 years to become a lawyer.

You (as a seeming representative of ALPA here in these forums) really need to get your head around what the term "organized labor" has historically meant, and should continue to mean.

Still holding out hope that ALPA might someday get it figured out,

Felix

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Reasons that ALPA may be supporting MPL:
It may be a better way of training airline pilots.
It may be that the coming shortage of pilots will overwhelm the system (what Boeing says), and that changes need to be made in our training system to support the demand for pilots in the future.
It may be that ALPA figures (like the Age 65 change was, or the upcoming Flight/Duty/Rest changes) that it is inevitable, so it is better to support it and have input into how the new training system will work, than to oppose it and have no input at all.
There could be an almost infinite number of other reasons why they would support it.

I assume there is documentation from ALPA spelling out their support for the program? Of course, you can always disbelieve the press release(s), and think that ALPA's reason(s) were other than what they published.

I personally think that pilot training could be, and should be, drastically improved, but switching to or adding an MPL track doesn't guarantee any improvement in the final product. It depends on a large number of factors.

cliff
NBO

 

[Fubijaakr]

Ask Lufthansa how it works.

 

[imacdog]

It may be that the coming shortage of pilots will overwhelm the system (what Boeing says), and that changes need to be made in our training system to support the demand for pilots in the future.

Get real.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You flew the A7... cool stuff...

You wanna know "then what?" Rez? I'll tell you "then what." You refuse to put up with the nonsense. As a group. Indeed, the whole idea of collective bargaining is to refuse to put up with the nonsense - and to oppose management and whatever political forces they may amass -together.

How? Especailly after ALPA.

Throughout my experience, ALPA has been wholly ineffective in building the cohesion necessary among pilots - as a guild - to act in opposition to those forces. Such describes ALPA's abject failure. Such also is the reason I walked away from this profession after 22 years to become a lawyer.

Perhaps your expectations of what ALPA should be were misaligned?

You are right, ALPA can be more effective....

You (as a seeming representative of ALPA here in these forums) really need to get your head around what the term "organized labor" has historically meant, and should continue to mean.

Still holding out hope that ALPA might someday get it figured out,

Felix

The issue is if ALPA is no good, then better or different representation is needed. I posited the question... 'after ALPA is gone, then what'.

You haven't really explained that part...

USAPA is not better. Neither is APA, SWAPA, IPA, IBT. These groups have the advantage of small one pilot group representation. But we've seen FedEx and CAL leave and come back....

One problem with ALPA is contentment with the status quo with the leadership. The other problem is the memberships' apathy and waiting around for someone to do something..... how long are they going to wait?

 

[Flopgut]

But we've seen FedEx and CAL leave and come back....

You saw American leave as well. And I doubt they are ever coming back. I so appreciated the way APA fought 65 like their membership wanted them to do. In my book APA is better.

ALPA's only chance IMHO is to suffer through the last late 70s hire, baby boomer member and see what we have left. Just about every dispicable anti union act that has happened in ALPA has been because of these pilots. When thye were junior they wrecked merger policy and when they were senior they screwed with retirement age. I don't know what their final act will be, but I'm not looking forward to it.

Tell you this: I'm happy with CAL ALPA. I think IACP could have managed things to this point well enough. I have zero anxiety about a possible "no ALPA" scenario. If ALPA's current leadership, with the current political climate, can't manage duty time overhaul to a clear victory for pilots, close it down.