Why I hate MESA!!

[Machdog1]

Just wanted to start a new thread about an airline that everybody seems to hate. So if you have a problem with MESA, if they screwed you some how or if you just want to let people know what the cancer of the regional airline industry is doing, post it here. Have fun!!!!!
P.S.
I hate MESA!!!!

 

[wscrj]

LOL, are you for real? Let me ask you dog, is it the management, business model, or operation you hate? Or is it the hourly "regular joe" people here that you can't stand? An important distinction, to be sure....

 

[Strikefinder]

To be honest with you, I've always found the rank-and-file Mesa guys and gals to be among the most polite and helpful I've come across. None of us know who voted for the agreement they took, and it's awfully stupid to jump one individual's case because he *may* have voted for an agreement many of us disagree with, or because he voted no and happens to work for a company with people who did vote for it.

 

[Machdog1]

I hate the fact that your airline and its pay is what they call "industry standard", in a time when we are trying to make alittle head way in our pay, your contract takes a huge step back for the rest of us!! I hate the fact that United gives you flying because you are the "cheapest", and my company can't compete because our pay scale is no where near yours!! I hate the fact that our industry is heading down this road. Who out of your company you want to blame that on is up to you. Keep on flying those larger A/C for pennies!! Looks like the rest of us at ACA will be on the street anyways. Maybe I will go work at MESA or Wendy's, I wonder who pays more?

 

[jetdriven]

I hate the fact that United gives you flying because you are the "cheapest", and my company can't compete because our pay scale is no where near yours!!

Welcome to America. It's called a Free market economy. Did you think we live in Russia??

I hate the fact that your airline and its pay is what they call "industry standard", in a time when we are trying to make alittle head way in our pay, your contract takes a huge step back for the rest of us!!

Do you work here? Did you know that the new contract has increases in just about every section? Which airline do you work for? Did you know we are just on our SECOND contract? Forget not that MESA organized in 1996.

Keep on flying those larger A/C for pennies!!

Our pay is about 6-10% below yours, hardly "pennies"....Plus we get 70 hours per bid as a guarantee, there are 13 bids in a year.

Maybe I will go work at MESA or Wendy's, I wonder who pays more?

With an attitude towards us you could NEVER get hired here. So, that should make your choice easier.


Like I said, which airline do you work for???

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

"Maybe I will go work at MESA or Wendy's, I wonder who pays more?"

dog, why would you even mention mesa as POSSIBLE employment if you hate them SO much. even if its in a sarcastic tone. your hypocritical attitude sure wont help your so called argument.

 

[Machdog1]

Don't worry I would never work for your company, it was a joke. I work at ACA and a lot of us here don't have nice things to say about your company!!!! Speaking how it is thats all!!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Mach doggie dog!!!!

I hear ya and feel the pain, we all do. The sad reality to this whole thing is this. The regional jet has change the way the industry leader think. This new line of thinking is that they can get an RJ to do 737 runs for about 70% less and while the RJ200 lacks capacity the 700 & 900 do not. While main line is giving up guppie routes and RJ's filling them for a fraction of the cost which in turns equates to less pay for the RJ pilot who now flys a run that used to pay quite well. The real bottom line is this, we should all get ready for this to be the final level in most of our careers, there will be NO MAJOR AIRLINE JOBS for many many years. What was once considered a stepping stone is now a career final!!!! This is where the mesa bashing started, this may well be a final step in manys career and with this type of compensation many can't afford to stay, so all the freedom and alter ego whatever mesa had the ball and because this was only a "Stepping stone job and not a career" they decided to take the low wages and force other companies to follow suite only to find that mesa may in fact be their career airline!!!!!

Sad reality huh??

WD.

 

[Machdog1]

your contract has increases from crap pay to a little bit better but still crap pay!!

 

[Machdog1]

Amen whiskey!!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

First of all, congrats to Air Whiskey on the MOA for UAL flying. Looks like your concessionary 7 and a half year deal may have saved your company.

Please include Eagle in this idiotic thread because of what they did so long ago nobody really remembers (including ALPA).

Please include Skywest in this idiotic thread for flying 50 seat rates for anything smaller than 737.

Please include ACA in this idiotic thread for spouting off about how there was no way they'd stoop to my company's level blah blah blah....puke, and then sign off on that sh1tty deal.

And please include Air Whiskey in this idiotic thread for the above reasons.

Bottom line is this, I hope Mesa is able to put all of you out of biz with its lower rates to enhance my job security.

Face it we are all stuck with the fact that we work for crummy wages, we all put our apps out and pretty much went to whoever called first. You are all welcome on my plane, we can talk fishin', we can talk sports, we can talk anything; but we have all lowered the bar on ourselves. If you voted your contract in because of the way I voted on mine than you are an idiot.

And by the way, ALL THE PILOTS AT THE MAJORS HATE US FOR FLYING THESE RJ'S anyway.

Deal with it you cryin bastards.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I do not hate the typical rank and file line pilot at Mesa. I used to hate them, but not anymore...I realized that it was for no reason and I was blaming them for events that were largely out of their control.

Instead, I hate the miserable slobs who went to Freedom and successfully whipsawed Mesa pilots into submission in signing their miserable contract. I also hate their prick of a CEO Jonathan Ornstein for having so little regard for the well being of his own employees that he would stoop to such lows. I hate it that the Mesa contract has suddenly become the "MARKET RATE" in regional feed flying, forcing the vast majority of regional pilots to bend over and take concessions in order to compete. I hate it that even with said concessions, ACA was not able to compete with Mesa and has apparently lost the growth that probably would have gone to us. There is no doubt that I am on the street right now because Mesa Air Group came along and f#cked up a good thing, in addition to creating downward pressure on some of the best regional contracts in the US.

Life goes on.

 

[Brother Francis]

Ummm; Machdog? These are your words:

Vote the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing in so we can all keep are jobs and start growing again its not that bad of a cut actually I will be making still what I got paid before. And I don't rely on conflict for extra pay and if you do you have a tight budget anyway! The contract only comes in to effect if we are affirmed by United which looks like it is going to happen. Also, pay rates for the 70 seat aircraft will be more, we hope, so thats a plus!! Look I know any pay cut sucks I agree. But when you have pilots say I rather they lay off more pilots or the company go under then there the ones who should leave, I know that there are a lot of people who disagree with me. But I know that the quiet ones out there will do the right thing and approve the TA.

Tell us all again your problem with Mesa. Something hypocritical about taking steps back, wasn't it?

The ACA concessions were brought up by CHQ management in negotiations, by the way. We really appreciated that.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Bottom line is this, I hope Mesa is able to put all of you out of biz with its lower rates to enhance my job security.

Deal with it you cryin bastards.

Well grog, i guess you just love your lil job and it's tiny pay. My only point is hope you know you are there most likely for your career. When you get off reserve and you have been around in the industry a few yrs, you will start to get my point. More to it than just putting thos shinny wings on and poking out that chest porclaiming you're a real airline pilot untill the check arrives on the 1st of the month and it shows $800.00 for the last 15 days. I guess you missed the part about NO MAJOR AIRLINE JOBS FOR MANY MANY MANY YEARS!!!! Don't worry you'll see.

WD.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

When push came to shove, we all did what we could to save our company and keep growing. For us it was killing an alter ego that was delivering 2 CRJ 700's a month in my home base and shipping my little 200 to the east coast.

We bargained away our pay to keep from getting laid off. You guys did it because you wanted to keep growth. We all have our reasons.

Its a pity we can't all just be pilots anymore, I used to love drinking with some of you guys. Fortunately there are still a few out there who look at my face before my name badge to decide whether to say hello.

Tailwinds and lets hope for better times ahead. Perhaps our next deals will all be better.

 

[Machdog1]

Hey francis what I said then was because of MESA thats why we were forced to take concessions!!! Thats why I said vote for the TA, because a no vote would hurt us even more. But now it doesn't even matter, we are screwed anyway. Thats my beef with MESA because I had to vote yes, there never should have been a vote in the first case. You know its interesting there was an article in I believe the washington post that said that ACA pilots would have to work for free to be competative, sorry thats not us thats MESA. Inregards to the past post I never said growth I said potential growth!! As far as I am concern it doesn't end here this is just the beginning. All I can say to all the other regional carriers out there watch your back MESA is on the prowl!!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

We bargained away our pay to keep from getting laid off. You guys did it because you wanted to keep growth. We all have our reasons

Its a pity we can't all just be pilots anymore, I used to love drinking with some of you guys. Fortunately there are still a few out there who look at my face before my name badge to decide whether to say hello.

Tailwinds and lets hope for better times ahead. Perhaps our next deals will all be better.

Ok one at a time. First, growth was not at stake for us, what you seem to keep missing here is with lowering the pay scales it effected other companies as a whole not just the skilled labor group like us. My company felt that the only way to compete with your company for the same work that we are doing it needed to lower costs. Those cuts never come from top level exec only the rank and file. Sure upper level mgt says that they took cuts as well but that equates to no bonus this yr and not their salary. I told you and your brethren months ago that this would happen the dominos have fallen.

Now as for "why can't we all just be pilots" well I can't speak for the next guy but I never got in this business to be a career regional pilot. That would be that same as going to med school and ending up as a career resident. We are skilled labor and as such should be compensated like it. Sure if I worked for mesa I would still be just as pissed as I am now, i still would have spent thousands on an education that is only providing hundreds in return, kinda bass akwards huh??

As for better times, yeah there is nothing wrong with wishfull thinking but as along as UAL is still furloughing 60/mo and the other 7000 on furlough just where do you feel this better times are or better yet when??????????????????????????

WD.

 

[Machdog1]

Hey grog I hope with that attitude you are not speaking for the rest of your pilot group, if you are I have a word for you scum@##$bag!! Enjoy the pay for the rest of your career!!

 

[blzr]

When I get furloughed from Piedmont, I want to go to work for Freedom. I say all furloughees go to Freedom and give those mesa boys a taste of their own lav juice. I love hearing how Freedom is so unfair and how they are flying your jets on your routes.

I don't know what the status of Freedom is now, but I sure hope it's around in a few more months. I'll just get hooked up with foodstamps and keep living the dream.

 

[Jetscream32]

blzr,

Go ahead and apply. Freedom isn't hiring anymore. All Mesa newhires, once all the CCair pilots are recalled and all J4J positions are filled, will go to either Mesa or AirMidwest. The next 700 delivery will be on the Mesa certificate. Actually why don't you send me your resume, I will be happy to put it in the proper place.

 

[Brother Francis]

machdog

Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em.
Little fleas have lesser fleas, and on, ad infinitum.

Hey francis what I said then was because of MESA thats why we were forced to take concessions!!!

The ACA concessions were brought up by CHQ management in negotiations, by the way.

Difference is: The CHQ pilots aren't taking concessions, even in spite of the precedent you have helped to establish. We are ready to shut the place down before we give in to extortion. There is the distinct possibility, even likelihood, that if CHQ strikes, Wexford will fold it up and transfer all the flying to Republic. CHQ will cease to be. We know that but we are standing up for ourselves even in the face of that very real threat.

We and Bedford also know that there will be no shortage of jackals salivating over the carcass and willing to fill the seats at any price. The GREATEST THREAT to our jobs is the pussies like you who will sacrifice your dignity and pride on the altar of "potential growth" and who will stand on the shoulders of others to keep your own heads above the water.

Furthermore, Mesa did not make you do anything; it was your choice and your decision to vote the way you did. Not only did you fail utterly to stand up for yourself, you are also unable to accept the responsibility for your own cowardice so you (unsuccessfully) attempt to shift the blame elsewhere.

You have astonishing audacity to start a thread condemning another pilot group for what you perceive to be cowardice when you lobbied the ACA group as hard as you did to lie down and spread. You do not have the standing to cast judgement on the actions of others; not with the glaring lack of courage you yourself have so prominently displayed.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

[Quote by grog_sit_reserve--

Bottom line is this, I hope Mesa is able to put all of you out of biz with its lower rates to enhance my job security.

Face it we are all stuck with the fact that we work for crummy wages, we all put our apps out and pretty much went to whoever called first.


Wrong, pal. I made a list of the top 5 regionals (ACA, AWAC, SKYW, CMR, and ASA not in any specific order) and decided to go with the first one of THOSE CARRIERS ONLY that offered me a position. I didn't even send any other resumes out, so save your "we all do the same thing to get an airline job bullsh!t".

As far as Mesa putting all the rest of us out of business...I certainly hope that you are simply a vocal minority at your company. I find it pathetic that you relish at the thought of others failing just so you can get your precious upgrade.

As I've stated before, I have no beef with the average line pilot at Mesa, but I certainly take exception in your case you disgusting parasite.

 

[aroundtheblock]

I agree with Jetdriven in that this is not Russia and a free enterprise system. That being said, if Mesa's wages are crap, then that's the kind of people that will work there. You get what you pay for.

 

[wscrj]

No, Grog does not speak for all of us at Mesa. In fact, his remark was a bit out of character for him. Probably a bit emotional after reading the post from Mr. Dog.

The fact is, those of us that post on this board speak only for ourselves. How many times did I read that ACA not do this, or Air Wisky will not do that, only to see that in fact they did. That being said, I hope Mr. Francis that you folks get what you want.

I often read through these posts and when one catches my eye and makes my eyebrows go up and my jaw go down, I try to remind myself that every village has an idiot, no exceptions.

I do not wish to see anyone lose their job.

Happy 4th everyone.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Thread interruption

Back to the original point of the thread and a little bit of history. Once upon a time there was a good little commuter airline in California called WestAir. They flew as a United Express with a mix of EMB-110, EMB-120, Shorts 360, and even 6 Bae-146s. Later the Bandits were replaced with Jetstreams. A great airline to work for and a great part of the country to be in. This airline's pilot group voted in ALPA in 1989. Can't remember the exact date, but lets call it a couple of years later, Mesa Air buys WestAir. WestAir is a unionized carrier with decent wages for a regional. Mesa, at that time, is a non-unionized carrier whose new hire pilots must pay $10,000 or so to be a first officer on a Beech 1900 at crappy wages. Slowly observers see Mesa Beech 1900s flying WestAir routes in Southern California. To make a long story short this cancer spreads until WestAir folds in the late 1990s, a shell of it's former self. All because of Mesa.

I used to hate Mesa pilots for this but then I realized that most of the scumbags that paid $10,000 to fly a Beech 1900 for low pay and were knowingly used to takeover WestAir flying were no longer working at Mesa, so my views softened. Still the corporate culture remains and they keep following the same pattern. They did almost the exact same thing to CCAir and given a chance they will do it to somebody else. That is why I hate Mesa, not necessarily the pilots, but definitely the company.

As an interesting side note, WestAir Airlines started Atlantic Coast Airlines. The pilots who saw the handwriting on the wall left in 1989 and went out there, others followed later. So you won't find a lot of compassion for Mesa from senior ACA pilots either.

Typhoonpilot

 

[wscrj]

Thanks for the history (no sarcasm intended).

Several comments though, I do not recall MESA ever being a PFT. They did (and do) require training notes for 1 year after checkride, but if you stay, you do not pay.

If you were referencing the San Juaner types, well, they spend a lot more than $10,000, but its for ratings and classes.

I agree completely that WestAir got a raw deal at the hands of Larrly Risley (and J.O. was around then too)

The CCAir types were merged (via ALPA protocols) into our list shortly after the purchase, and all have been offered positions here at MESA

Happy 4th....

 

[stillaboo]

I also though Mesa used to be PFT. That was a different era, the early 90's, and CMR and others were PFT too (am I right?).

The industry has changed, but some things remain the same: Mesa is growing like a weed, and Mesa managment isn't afraid to step on some toes to get what they want- heck, they scewed their own pilots before they ever got around to underbidding UA contracts.

Please believe that NO mesa pilot is ever happy to see other pilots on the street (well, the original Freedom guys might be).

Our jumpseat is open to all.

-Boo!

 

[typhoonpilot]

Got to head out the door to London in 10 minutes ( do they celebrate the 4th of July there ).

I distinctly remember having a conversation with a fairly high time CFI in 1992 who was thinking of going to Mesa and was talking about the PFT they had. Not sure of the specifics but I do remember that. Not sure about CMR.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Brother Francis]

WestAir

Once upon a time there was a good little commuter airline in California called WestAir. They flew as a United Express with a mix of EMB-110, EMB-120, Shorts 360, and even 6 Bae-146s.

I remember that. I knew a girl, Sally, who was CA on the Shorts and the 146.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Just my $0.02

What a lot of us are failing to realize is that if it wasn't MESA, someone else would have set the "industry standard." Mesa pilots were given a raw deal, and had to take it in order to save themselves. Its management that you should have a problem with, as well as the guys/gals that went to freedumb that made this all possible. MESA pilots are pilots just like all of us. and we should appreciate all that we have in common. My jumpseat will be open to all except freedumb. If we all help eachother, eventually with unity will come strength.

Sincerely,
Yogi