Why I hate MESA!!

[Brother Francis]

machdog

Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em.
Little fleas have lesser fleas, and on, ad infinitum.

Hey francis what I said then was because of MESA thats why we were forced to take concessions!!!

The ACA concessions were brought up by CHQ management in negotiations, by the way.

Difference is: The CHQ pilots aren't taking concessions, even in spite of the precedent you have helped to establish. We are ready to shut the place down before we give in to extortion. There is the distinct possibility, even likelihood, that if CHQ strikes, Wexford will fold it up and transfer all the flying to Republic. CHQ will cease to be. We know that but we are standing up for ourselves even in the face of that very real threat.

We and Bedford also know that there will be no shortage of jackals salivating over the carcass and willing to fill the seats at any price. The GREATEST THREAT to our jobs is the pussies like you who will sacrifice your dignity and pride on the altar of "potential growth" and who will stand on the shoulders of others to keep your own heads above the water.

Furthermore, Mesa did not make you do anything; it was your choice and your decision to vote the way you did. Not only did you fail utterly to stand up for yourself, you are also unable to accept the responsibility for your own cowardice so you (unsuccessfully) attempt to shift the blame elsewhere.

You have astonishing audacity to start a thread condemning another pilot group for what you perceive to be cowardice when you lobbied the ACA group as hard as you did to lie down and spread. You do not have the standing to cast judgement on the actions of others; not with the glaring lack of courage you yourself have so prominently displayed.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

[Quote by grog_sit_reserve--

Bottom line is this, I hope Mesa is able to put all of you out of biz with its lower rates to enhance my job security.

Face it we are all stuck with the fact that we work for crummy wages, we all put our apps out and pretty much went to whoever called first.


Wrong, pal. I made a list of the top 5 regionals (ACA, AWAC, SKYW, CMR, and ASA not in any specific order) and decided to go with the first one of THOSE CARRIERS ONLY that offered me a position. I didn't even send any other resumes out, so save your "we all do the same thing to get an airline job bullsh!t".

As far as Mesa putting all the rest of us out of business...I certainly hope that you are simply a vocal minority at your company. I find it pathetic that you relish at the thought of others failing just so you can get your precious upgrade.

As I've stated before, I have no beef with the average line pilot at Mesa, but I certainly take exception in your case you disgusting parasite.

 

[aroundtheblock]

I agree with Jetdriven in that this is not Russia and a free enterprise system. That being said, if Mesa's wages are crap, then that's the kind of people that will work there. You get what you pay for.

 

[wscrj]

No, Grog does not speak for all of us at Mesa. In fact, his remark was a bit out of character for him. Probably a bit emotional after reading the post from Mr. Dog.

The fact is, those of us that post on this board speak only for ourselves. How many times did I read that ACA not do this, or Air Wisky will not do that, only to see that in fact they did. That being said, I hope Mr. Francis that you folks get what you want.

I often read through these posts and when one catches my eye and makes my eyebrows go up and my jaw go down, I try to remind myself that every village has an idiot, no exceptions.

I do not wish to see anyone lose their job.

Happy 4th everyone.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Thread interruption

Back to the original point of the thread and a little bit of history. Once upon a time there was a good little commuter airline in California called WestAir. They flew as a United Express with a mix of EMB-110, EMB-120, Shorts 360, and even 6 Bae-146s. Later the Bandits were replaced with Jetstreams. A great airline to work for and a great part of the country to be in. This airline's pilot group voted in ALPA in 1989. Can't remember the exact date, but lets call it a couple of years later, Mesa Air buys WestAir. WestAir is a unionized carrier with decent wages for a regional. Mesa, at that time, is a non-unionized carrier whose new hire pilots must pay $10,000 or so to be a first officer on a Beech 1900 at crappy wages. Slowly observers see Mesa Beech 1900s flying WestAir routes in Southern California. To make a long story short this cancer spreads until WestAir folds in the late 1990s, a shell of it's former self. All because of Mesa.

I used to hate Mesa pilots for this but then I realized that most of the scumbags that paid $10,000 to fly a Beech 1900 for low pay and were knowingly used to takeover WestAir flying were no longer working at Mesa, so my views softened. Still the corporate culture remains and they keep following the same pattern. They did almost the exact same thing to CCAir and given a chance they will do it to somebody else. That is why I hate Mesa, not necessarily the pilots, but definitely the company.

As an interesting side note, WestAir Airlines started Atlantic Coast Airlines. The pilots who saw the handwriting on the wall left in 1989 and went out there, others followed later. So you won't find a lot of compassion for Mesa from senior ACA pilots either.

Typhoonpilot

 

[wscrj]

Thanks for the history (no sarcasm intended).

Several comments though, I do not recall MESA ever being a PFT. They did (and do) require training notes for 1 year after checkride, but if you stay, you do not pay.

If you were referencing the San Juaner types, well, they spend a lot more than $10,000, but its for ratings and classes.

I agree completely that WestAir got a raw deal at the hands of Larrly Risley (and J.O. was around then too)

The CCAir types were merged (via ALPA protocols) into our list shortly after the purchase, and all have been offered positions here at MESA

Happy 4th....

 

[stillaboo]

I also though Mesa used to be PFT. That was a different era, the early 90's, and CMR and others were PFT too (am I right?).

The industry has changed, but some things remain the same: Mesa is growing like a weed, and Mesa managment isn't afraid to step on some toes to get what they want- heck, they scewed their own pilots before they ever got around to underbidding UA contracts.

Please believe that NO mesa pilot is ever happy to see other pilots on the street (well, the original Freedom guys might be).

Our jumpseat is open to all.

-Boo!

 

[typhoonpilot]

Got to head out the door to London in 10 minutes ( do they celebrate the 4th of July there ).

I distinctly remember having a conversation with a fairly high time CFI in 1992 who was thinking of going to Mesa and was talking about the PFT they had. Not sure of the specifics but I do remember that. Not sure about CMR.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Brother Francis]

WestAir

Once upon a time there was a good little commuter airline in California called WestAir. They flew as a United Express with a mix of EMB-110, EMB-120, Shorts 360, and even 6 Bae-146s.

I remember that. I knew a girl, Sally, who was CA on the Shorts and the 146.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Just my $0.02

What a lot of us are failing to realize is that if it wasn't MESA, someone else would have set the "industry standard." Mesa pilots were given a raw deal, and had to take it in order to save themselves. Its management that you should have a problem with, as well as the guys/gals that went to freedumb that made this all possible. MESA pilots are pilots just like all of us. and we should appreciate all that we have in common. My jumpseat will be open to all except freedumb. If we all help eachother, eventually with unity will come strength.

Sincerely,
Yogi

 

[OneTuffGuy]

lets think why do I hate mesa hmmm? Well for when there is my avtar and I truly believe they did bend over for management. Mesa has single handily ruined contracts for the rest of the industry. Thanks alot MESA I hope you are proud of yourselves...

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Yikes you guys slay me. You expect me to look at a thread like this and not post up something flammable? Machdog this thread you started is flame bait and besides, you said "Have Fun."

My personal favorite was machdog's:


"Hey grog I hope with that attitude you are not speaking for the rest of your pilot group, if you are I have a word for you scum@##$bag!! Enjoy the pay for the rest of your career!!"


Hey Machdog1, I only speak for myself here at Mesa and to tell the truth I fill pretty screwed. But, with nothing better out there I pretty much have to stick it out til I can get on elsewhere.

For the rest of you, sorry for taking this thread too lightly; just a little weary of being everyones' reason that the airline biz ailing.

Also would like to say that the comment about Mesa putting everyone out of biz was inappropriate and out of line, especially in today's climate, for that I apologize.

Please see my previous posts. I told Whiskey to vote down their TA, I told ACA to vote down their TA and I asked CHQ guys where to send the money for the strike fund.

I think you're all taking me a little too seriously.

 

[avrodriver]

Grog's bottomline from a few posts back:

"Bottom line is this, I hope Mesa is able to put all of you out of biz with its lower rates to enhance my job security."


We're all thrilled that guys like you have our back. AD

 

[Brett Hull]

Why I hate all of you

o.k., I don't really hate you guys. I don't even know you. But.....

lets think why do I hate mesa hmmm? Well for when there is my avtar and I truly believe they did bend over for management. Mesa has single handily ruined contracts for the rest of the industry. Thanks alot MESA I hope you are proud of yourselves...

Do you know who bent over for management and have ruined the industry? Every single one of you! All of you who said "I'm only worth $17,000." Management knows as long as there are people such as yourselves who will sell your soul to fly a shiny jet, they've got you buy the balls. You've got no one to blame but yourselves.

 

[hhab]

"I distinctly remember having a conversation with a fairly high time CFI in 1992 who was thinking of going to Mesa and was talking about the PFT they had"


Nope, Mesa never had a PFT program.

Sorry to hear if ACA looses some of its future growth. I am not very familiar with how ACA is run, (other commuters / airlines as well ) matter of fact, it takes most of my time to keeping track with whats happening here @ Mesa.
For a person that stands outside looking into politics @ ACA I must wonder how the relationship between ACA and UAL has gone the last 6 months, and is going, in consideration the lawsuits ACA filed against UAL. Is ACA playing hardball with a bankrupt company because they ( ACA ) are the largest UAL commuter and are in the belief that UAL is not capable to replace them? I see certain simulareties between UAL/ACA and what happened between Delta/Comair some years back. Majors do not want a single feeder anymore. They want multiple spread over their entire route-network. The Comair strike thought them that. Get used to it.
Comair was able to strike and still able to keep growing (even with CHQ entering the filed) but still they are paying the price with less growth.
From what I can see ( and my limited knowledge ), ACA never had a change to keep the planned growth even with their agreed paycut. So now ACA pilots makes less money and most likely growth.
You can blame Mesas new contract as much as you want if it makes you feel better, but please do some research withing your company , your codeshare partner, and the company you are blaiming.
We all "love" scape goats, Some Comair pilots uses CHQ, Airlines uses Commuters, RJDF uses ALPA, The British uses the French, The Tuties tribes uses the Hutus, Hitler used the Jews and most commuter pilots uses Mesa.........

Our "loved" Mesa contract was a result of mainly 4 factors: -Our CEO and the 3 ( or so ) % of Mesa pilots that helped starting Freedom - The condition of our Partners - The economy in general at time of negotiation, and hardly any leverage on our side.
The outcome was either to take ( very ) small improvement in our current contract + great scope / successorship language +recall of 120+ CCAir pilots, or watch the continued rapid growth of Freedom, (that had NOT a contact,) and a very remote chance of being released to strike within the next year or so.
I was one of the yes-voters but I might had voted differently if we had same preferential hiring agreements most other commuter ( that ended up with good contracts ) had in the good late 90s/early 00's........
It has always been my impression Scope has very little value among commuter-pilots posting here. Is it because of the lack of it among the commuters or because you do not see the immediate hard cash value of it? CHQ, ASA/Comair, Mesaba/PinnA/Bigsky.... Any comments?

 

[hhab]

"Do you know who bent over for management and have ruined the industry? Every single one of you! All of you who said "I'm only worth $17,000." Management knows as long as there are people such as yourselves who will sell your soul to fly a shiny jet, they've got you buy the balls. You've got no one to blame but yourselves."



I work for this "horrible"company called Mesa. last year I made 78K. One day I have to "sell out" for 1'st year pay @ AirTran, Southwest, Fedex or UPS..........

 

[avrodriverj85]

Hey Typhoon,

Being from SoCal I remember when Mesa bought WestAir.. and how if you wanted a job there you had to pony up the $10k. Seems like the managment team over there has always been a leech on the pilots neck someway or another.

Don't forget those other 2 great SoCal carriers from the late 80's; PSA and AirCal, that got swallowed by arch enemy USAir and AA.

I wonder how those guys felt to see their friendly hometown airlines swallowed by those two behemouths. Wonder what they are thinking now?

 

[ChinaClipper]

To the Self rightous....

ARENT ALL THE REGIONALS REPLACING MAINLINE FLYING WITH LOWER COST REGIONAL FLYING???? YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lowering the bar? YESSSSSSS!!!!! Anyone with whipsawing going on by managers? YESSSSSS! Are we all screwing up because instead of fighting greedy managers we are finger pointing about how one group smells worse than the other as we stand in the sewage? YEEEEEESSSSSSS! The two faced nature of the original post is amazing.....BTW the jumpseat is ALAWAYS open, Part 135 included on my "No Voting" airplane.....unless you are a scab...

 

[avrodriverj85]

ChinaClipper

What has ALPA done to stop the whipsaw? My problem with national is that they can't seem to see 5 years down the road, much less 50 feet in front of their face. Meanwhile - J.O. and his types are running around in packs coming up with ways to stick it to the labor groups while lining their pockets and securing gold parachutes. It's the same patterns, but ALPA appears helpless.

ALPA cannot theoretically back mainline and it's regional partner equally or fairly - therefore creating a conflict of interest.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[eddie]

CMR was PFT in the mid 90s. Even after they dropped the PFT, they still required something like $350 just to interview (that was in 1998).