Why hire military over your competition?

[pilotyip]

I already told you guys. Its because they all have four year college degree's, nowadays. From colleges'..

oh please! have you not paid attention, we all pretty much agree here that a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It may have a lot to do with getting a job, but not with flying an airplane.

My pilot heroes did not have college degrees and they performed feats that would test the metal of anyone. They flew in WWII, George Bush I in the Pacific, the 10,000?s of B-17 and B-24 pilots in Europe, and the C-46 pilots over the hump in China. I meet these guys on the air show circuit, they come to see the C-47 and B-17, and I ask them about their adventures during the war. I am in awe of what they did. How can anyone say these guys without degrees were not as good as today?s degreed pilots?

Robert Lovett, WWII Asst Sec of War for Air, may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality. We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He said the college was not needed to fly an airplane, so he devised a test to identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training. He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.

 

[FLYLOW22]

No idea. Military guys have their place but AREN'T airline pilots. Companies are hiring a known and proven factor of intelligence, accomplishment and programming by hiring military. That's all.

In fact, it takes many of them several years to acclimate and "grow their hair out".

No harm no foul... Takes all types and I celebrate diversity in background... But not necessarily diversity itself.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

In my years involved with training, I didn't see any evidence that a military background gave trainees an edge over other types of backgrounds....., but guys & gals that came from heavy hand flying backgrounds such as helicopter pilots, bush pilots, crop-dusting, turbo-prop, night piston twin operations, whether they came from the military or not seem to have no issues at all with stabilizing their approaches and crosswind landings. Out of those with military background, the transport guys did the best (C130 drivers were the better pilots for some reason) B-52 pilots did the worst, specially with crosswind landings, fighter pilots were a mixed batch. Out of those with civilian backgrounds, those with the heavy hand flying backgrounds that I mentioned before did the best, those that went from just a few hours into highly automated flight decks did very poorly.

This has been my experience, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings....!

 

[Sluggo_63]

He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could.

So how could you be a college graduate without graduating high school? Weren't they all high school graduates? What you're essentially saying is that if they had just stopped at high school, they would have flown fine, but the mere act of taking college classes made them worse pilots.

 

[labbats]

The question isn't if military or civilian is better after being hired.

The question is why are the majority of newhire classes military and not civilian.

 

[pilotyip]

So how could you be a college graduate without graduating high school? Weren't they all high school graduates? What you're essentially saying is that if they had just stopped at high school, they would have flown fine, but the mere act of taking college classes made them worse pilots.

Assuming all college grads are high school grads, that would make them a sub set of all high school grads. We are looking for those skills found in high school grads, college does not develop these skills. The skills to be a pilots are like the skills to be a good basketball player, you either have it or you don't. A high school grad without the basketball skill set will not become a basketball player by going to college.

Robert Lovett, basically the first Sec of the USAF, was WWI Navy Bomber pilot, he dropped out of college to fight in WWI. He knew as a Squadron CO, that the educational background of his pilots had no bearing on their success in combat.

When Lovett was appointed asst Sec of War for Air in November of 1940 he knew we would not be able to get enough college grad pilots and told Hap Arnold things would have to change In WWII the tests were developed to identify those traits that marked success in pilot training. No one can say that these high school grads who flew in WWII were not the right stuff.

Similar ones are still being used to identify those candidate to start flight training. You took them to get into flight training. I am going bet there were a lot of guys in college with you that took these and did not qualify for pilot training.

I will say that two years of college math, one year of physics and chemistry were helpful in going through pilot and navigator training. But how many college grads have this back ground coming out of college? From observing the pilots I have interviewed, I can say very few.

 

[wood pecker]

College gets you drinking buddies as well as the military.
Drinking buddies gets you referrals which gets you in the pool.

However, in the near future I am guessing a HR computer program will replace drinking buddies.

 

[JumpersAway]

The question isn't if military or civilian is better after being hired.

The question is why are the majority of newhire classes military and not civilian.

I'm not really seeing this to be the case. It is my understanding, talking to a myriad of different people at different legacy carriers, that the new hire classes are comprised of pilots from all walks of life. The attrition at the regional level supports this, as does my own experience.

 

[labbats]

I'm not really seeing this to be the case. It is my understanding, talking to a myriad of different people at different legacy carriers, that the new hire classes are comprised of pilots from all walks of life. The attrition at the regional level supports this, as does my own experience.

That's not what I'm hearing from AA and I also heard a recent Southwest class was 100% military.

I don't know anyone at Delta, but every post on the recently hired thread there is military.

USAir may be the exception, but from people I know who have been hired and turned down it seems there is no rhyme or reason in their hiring criteria.

If you remove the flowthroughs and strictly focus on newhires I'm sure you'll see my point.

 

[Flash]

That's not what I'm hearing from AA and I also heard a recent Southwest class was 100% military.

I don't know anyone at Delta, but every post on the recently hired thread there is military.

USAir may be the exception, but from people I know who have been hired and turned down it seems there is no rhyme or reason in their hiring criteria.

If you remove the flowthroughs and strictly focus on newhires I'm sure you'll see my point.

SWA will be running out of wall space soon for all the cool pictures of pilots past glory days