Why General Custer(Lee) loves the merger

[johnsonrod]

General,

You need to learn how to be a little more respectful. I think the post directed at you is filled with fact. None of which you were able to disprove with your numbers.

On another note. Have you ever even been to Lacrosse? What is your problem with this place? Seems to be you are really too rigid to understand that there is life outside your cozy little 767.

It would be a good idea not to trounce on someone's current position. I have flown the DC9 and I have a lot of resepct for the guys that type on the airplane. And while we are at it, that DC9 that you constantly pick on has put a roof over many families over the years. I find it particularly insulting that you constantly demean those who have ever flown it. It isn't the prettiest girl at the dance but it gets the job done.

NWA has been responsible in not loading up our debt over the years. Remember when being fiscally responsible and not loading a company down with debt was the right business decision to make? We own a lot of those DC9s and they helped take us through the CH 11 process. So when you sit on here and pontificate about what a whore the airplane is you really don't know what you are talking about.

So keep playing your broken record about DC9's going away. How you are picking up MD90's and 777LR's. Keep patting yourself on the back about the raise you gave us. Our JPWA is a document bought and paid for by Delta MANAGEMENT. YOU didn't give me anything! Get that straight!

Maybe you should re-read the Rules of the Road, because it seems to me that you are not treating others with very much respect. We are on the same team here. The sooner you realize this the better.

To any DAL pilots out there who read this. I am not directing this at you, rather your esteemed colleague who thinks he is better than most with his arrogant self-serving opinions.

Look forward to working with you all at Delta.

Let me understand this. You think GL needs to learn to be respectful? Have you ever read any of GL's comments? You couldn't sound more condescending. Regardless, he didn't start this inflamatory thread - nwredtail did. GL was merely defending himself.

I don't have a stake in this fight since I work for neither - I hope arbitration can finally put a lot of these issues to rest (unless you want a USAirways debacle). My suggestion is that you guys look for the positives instead of always harping on the negatives. Neither side will be absolutely happy - that's called an arbitrated compromise...

And just remember, NWA looked to be on the verge of furloughing pilots and eventually grounding many of its Diesel 9s (that still might happen). Combining with Delta should preserve a number of NWA jobs when this was not looking likely. Again, the positives seem to far outweigh the negatives in this case despite all of the complaining.

 

[General Lee]

You were wrong, Kix was announced long ago and the SEA-LHR is gone just for a couple months, back in spring. Sorry, your credibility is still crap.


. Plus an additional 25-50% in 5 to ten years, but that doesn't seem to be mentioned by you, why is that?
But generally gets everyone ahead where they would be at original Delta in 5 to 10 years, yet you never mention that. Why is that?


But you agree, that you personally win either way, right?

That's funny, here is what you just posted about my info:

SEA-LHR still in Pars thru May, as is DTW-CDG. Once again, the General's information is incorrect.


So, now that we have that straight, that I am correct, let's move on......

ATTRITION HAS NEVER BEEN USED IN A SLI. Your A320FO on the stand admitted that. Your MEC Chairman "couldn't recall" how many furloughs he was told. Your 744 Captain told on the stand how they used ratios initially with Roberts and how his "highly regarded" friend the negotiator stated what "not to do"(the Roberts Award). Your Computer Model pilot spokesman stated, on the stand, that your average hours were a lot higher than ours, then stated your own computer model had incorrect fleet information. And after all of this, all you have from Bloch was that 2 legacy carriers that are financially "equal." (we aren't equal sized, we don't have equal number of widebodies, or equal number of very old mainline planes with no glass, or equal number of retirements that don't matter anyway--we have more later on). Keep looking for anything you can to refute this, but in the end, ALPA merger policy will prevail, just like at USAir. Status quo.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

You need to learn how to be a little more respectful. I think the post directed at you is filled with fact. None of which you were able to disprove with your numbers.

On another note. Have you ever even been to Lacrosse? What is your problem with this place? Seems to be you are really too rigid to understand that there is life outside your cozy little 767.

It would be a good idea not to trounce on someone's current position. I have flown the DC9 and I have a lot of resepct for the guys that type on the airplane. And while we are at it, that DC9 that you constantly pick on has put a roof over many families over the years. I find it particularly insulting that you constantly demean those who have ever flown it. It isn't the prettiest girl at the dance but it gets the job done.

NWA has been responsible in not loading up our debt over the years. Remember when being fiscally responsible and not loading a company down with debt was the right business decision to make? We own a lot of those DC9s and they helped take us through the CH 11 process. So when you sit on here and pontificate about what a whore the airplane is you really don't know what you are talking about.

So keep playing your broken record about DC9's going away. How you are picking up MD90's and 777LR's. Keep patting yourself on the back about the raise you gave us. Our JPWA is a document bought and paid for by Delta MANAGEMENT. YOU didn't give me anything! Get that straight!

Maybe you should re-read the Rules of the Road, because it seems to me that you are not treating others with very much respect. We are on the same team here. The sooner you realize this the better.

To any DAL pilots out there who read this. I am not directing this at you, rather your esteemed colleague who thinks he is better than most with his arrogant self-serving opinions.

Look forward to working with you all at Delta.

More respectful? To a captain who is (or will be) junior to me anyway? This guy said I was lying about the announcements of some route cuts, and then I set him straight. Then he puts this thread up with the cool title, and expects me to give him respect? Come on. I like the debate and banter this board provides, and some people can't take it that I have an answer for everything they put out.

As far as the DC9 goes, it has a great history, but I never want to fly it. I was a 727FE, and that gave me some perspective on old style. I don't have to fly anymore of that stuff and I will be just fine. Been there, have the certificate. I never called your plane a "whore", I just wouldn't want to fly it. What worries many on this board is how long they will be around. You are bringing older planes to the table, and that worries some. As far as LaCrosse goes, never been there. I know your DC9s go there, so there you have it.

And YES, we did give you something. LOA19 was designed to bring you up to parity, and we were told how much was in the total pot. Most of that went to help you, not us. You got a raise, we didn't get our pension back.

Also, I am looking forward to this arguing being done. We are on the same team, but this SLI has to be fair.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mikes Apartment]

General,


To any DAL pilots out there who read this. I am not directing this at you, rather your esteemed colleague who thinks he is better than most with his arrogant self-serving opinions.

Look forward to working with you all at Delta.

You seem like a real d o u s c h e b a g. I agree with the General on a lot of what he is saying. Am I being disrespectful?

 

[Sedona16]

Great post! Again the notion the Northwest guys try to spread about thousands of retirements in a short period of time relative to Delta retiremenst is pure nonsense. A few more in the short term, many less in the long term. These are the facts....dont buy into all the smoke and mirrors these guys are trying to use.

Here's a rough comparison of age 65 retirements (the only sure thing) through 2028.

NW DL
2013 70 60
2014 96 75
2015 167 89
2016 183 136
2017 199 157
2018 230 218
2019 256 272
2020 285 348
2021 295 478
2022 343 567
2023 314 549
2024 283 544
2025 182 472
2026 180 422
2027 152 318
2028 122 311

Using 5300 NW pilots and 7500 DL pilots.

Over 20 years: NW DL
Total 3357 5016
Percentage 63.3% 66.9%

Over 10 years:
Total 945 735
Percentage 17.8% 9.8%

Years 10-20 2019-2028
NW DL
Total 2412 4281
Percentage 45.5% 57.1%

A few observations:

- Higher percentage of NW retirements in first 10 years.

- Higher percentage of DL retirements in years 10-20 and beyond.

- NW pilots will benefit from access to a larger, higher paying fleet at integration (ex fences).

- DL pilots will be exposed to a generally smaller, lower paying fleet at integration as well as the oldest aircraft in the combined fleet.

- 10 year fences seem timed precisely to allow NW pilots take advantage of their retirements then share the large increase in DL retirements.

- Any dynamic system would have to allow NW pilots to benefit from their retirements then DL pilots to benefit from their's. We'd be looking at a 20-25 dynamic list, fighting over who gets what new equipment the whole way.

- Glad I'm not a negotiator or arbitrator.

- Looking forward to a list that is equally unfair to all then moving this thing forward.

 

[johnsonrod]

.....

 

[jetflier]

General,A DC9 Captain can't be thrown up to a 777 Captain's seniority range---that is a windfall. "

There happen to be some DC9 Captains who could fly a wide-body but for quality of life reasons, bid DC9 Captain so they can have a great quality of life.

Your blanket statements do not make an educated and valid point. Sounds more like anger and whining to me. Not very becoming for a Delta Captain.

You said "

 

[Propsync]

1700 in 10 years, give or take. Will they really be able to merge without furloughing? That would mostly ruin the 1700 number. If so, the cyclical hiring trend will get even more dramatic.

 

[General Lee]

General,A DC9 Captain can't be thrown up to a 777 Captain's seniority range---that is a windfall. "

There happen to be some DC9 Captains who could fly a wide-body but for quality of life reasons, bid DC9 Captain so they can have a great quality of life.

Your blanket statements do not make an educated and valid point. Sounds more like anger and whining to me. Not very becoming for a Delta Captain.

You said "

I understand that. There are probably some greenbooks though who are senior but could not bid a widebody thanks to few retirements last year, or zero displacements. That is the key. Your new manning formula hopefully will take care of that issue.

And, I am not angry. I will do very well with even relative seniority, which in some ways is a win for you guys since you don't bring as many high paying widebody jobs to the table compared to us. We'll see how this plays out. Try to understand that I do not wish ill will on any of my new DL brothers, rather I want a fair deal for the SLI. That's it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Bottom line, no artbitration award HAS EVER MENTIONED WHOS CONTRACT WAS BETTER. EVER.

Not true at all.

 

[Kroll]

General,

LaCrosse = Largest six pack in the world. Nuff said there.

DC-9 @ NWA was profitable @ $105 a barrel. At Delta this number will be better once they are put on the right routes. The 9's will be here for 5 year as of a few days ago to be replaced by something. (maybe 717)

SEA = 757/ 767 base maybe already mentioned.


SLI = who cares we can't control it. It will be what it is. Some of you guys are going to medical out over this and make me even happier thanks.

 

[nwaredtail]

So General, getting back to my original comment, now focus and read the instructions, do you move up more under NWA and DAL new proposals than you would had Delta Stood alone.

A. Move up more

B. Can't answer a question without a whole dissertaion on DC-9's and how great South America is.

 

[nwaredtail]

You seem like a real d o u s c h e b a g. I agree with the General on a lot of what he is saying. Am I being disrespectful?

Relax and get back to your porn site. Your new callsign is "SPANKY"

 

[nwaredtail]

Not true at all.

Waiting for your examples...............

 

[General Lee]

So General, getting back to my original comment, now focus and read the instructions, do you move up more under NWA and DAL new proposals than you would had Delta Stood alone.

A. Move up more

B. Can't answer a question without a whole dissertaion on DC-9's and how great South America is.

Had Delta stood alone? That isn't my call. I will move up 2% under Dalpa's proposal in the short term(nobody knows how many retirements there will be in the next 4-5 years), and backwards 14% immediately with NALPA's. We both had a lot of retirements coming eventually. You have a bunch sooner than we do, but we have more in the end. So, overall our proposal is more fair for everyone. Also, Do you know who has the most DC9s IN SOUTH AMERICA? Aserca Airlines, in Venezuela.


Bye Bye---General Lee