Why Can't I Pft Like The Rich Kids Do??

[Nindiri]

Like the others said, don't waste your money buying multi time now. After you've built up your total time, if you're still having trouble getting the multi hours, then you could consider buying them. No sense in buying hours if you can get someone else to pay for them, though, unless it's getting you a job a lot quicker (senority is everything).

As for the PFT label, I wouldn't spend much time worrying about that. Outside of the message board world, nobody cares one way or the other.

 

[moxiepilot]

you do whatever you need to get ahead. you don't 'look out' for anyone...just yourself.

this industry is too small to think that if you step on someone's foot you won't be having to kiss their a$$ in a few years, cause you will.

imagine your 30 before finally deciding to follow your real passion, you're jobless for the first time in 13 years....your eager to start...eaglejet sends you paperwork offering 500 in this or that for 20K+...it's tempting. i'm just being honest, ok?

i appreciate your honesty at the risk of being flamed on a sensitive subject, but honestly i wouldn't do it.
i'm 30 going on 31. i have my cfi checkride coming up in about 2 weeks. i have $200,000 of debt and i'm unemployed while i train. i expect to make $10-15/hr for the next few years as a cfi and be paid i'd say on average 30-40 a week on a good week (ground & flight time)

that ain't gonna cut it to pay the bills, but there's nothing to take. if i had $20k at 300 hours would i jump on your opportunity? no.

i can ONLY assume pilots on this forum represent other pilots opinions and if that is correct...i should run not walk from the idea completely.

at least you didn't make the mistake then realize it later. good luck

 

[viper548]

i'm 30 going on 31. i have my cfi checkride coming up in about 2 weeks. i have $200,000 of debt and i'm unemployed while i train. i expect to make $10-15/hr for the next few years as a cfi and be paid i'd say on average 30-40 a week on a good week (ground & flight time)

Moxie, you have a very good idea of what things will be like. I worked 7 days a week and made myself available all day. I averaged 25-30 hours a week. I HIGHLY suggest getting your CFII immediatly after your CFI. The CFII checkride is very easy. If you wait, you'll find out you have no time to do it. The CFII makes you more competitive for a job, if you don't have one lined up already. Most importantly, it will help you make more money and get hours faster. The private and commerical courses have a lot of solo flights. The instrument is all dual. Teaching instrument students is genarally less stressful than private students, since they already know how to land.
Good luck on the checkride.

 

[MJPilot]

The instrument is all dual???

I strongly believe that only 25 hours of DUAL is needed towards the 40 required.

 

[MJPilot]

Buying jet time might just work for you.

I built my time from 350 hours to 4000, including 1200 Multi, within the past 5 years.

I managed to get hired at a dangerous outfit in the Carribean flying C-402s, which I ultimately turned down, also due to personal reasons.

I sent out hundreds or resumees but could not get any response or interview.

Found a job in Asia, so I did a B727 type rating, and that is where I fly now, very happy. Now, this is not PFT, since I only got my rating to get the job.

My goal was and still is to fly a business jet. If I had not found this job here, I might have considered what you are thinking about.

It is very hard to get a corporate job, if you dont have any connections nor type rating.

 

[Goose Egg]

I'm in somewhat of a similar position, although a little further along. I'm 28, I have my CFIs, and about 600 hours TT. Would I consider PFT? Nope. I don't want to pay for it. I have about $25K worth of student loans from my college/flight training, and I think that's enough.

Save yer money. You'll need it later. Remember, there's no such thing as a free lunch. I'm not so sure that there's really any way to get "ahead" per se.

-Goose

 

[Godvek]

Do the math, if you can justify spending $24,000-$80,000 to get a $18,000 a year job that will become a $40,000 a year job after 3-5 years go for it! Although as stated in an earlier post, regionals such as ASA, Expressjet, Eagle, Pinnacle, Chautauqua have pretty low mins and are also hiring like crazy, so enjoying a little instructing for a year or so might save you 15% on your car insurance.

 

[viper548]

The instrument is all dual???

I strongly believe that only 25 hours of DUAL is needed towards the 40 required.

I did training under part 141 where all the lessons are dual, under part 61 you are correct. Anyways, the point is, in general, you will get more flight time from an instrument student than you will a private student.

 

[Almerick07]

No harm in researching ways to get jobs in the aviation industry, especially if you are new to it. PFT is a very touchy subject only because the aviation industry is a tight-nit group of people always looking out for everyone else. PFT is a good way to get a reputation in this industry and a reputation in this small of a community can haunt you for as long as your working/looking for work. If you honest to goodness wanted to get to an airline fast and had $20k in your pocket I would join a flying club and split tons of twin time with anyone who was willing, it is an awesome way to keep instrument skills sharp and see a lot of different places. I would also spilt time in a c152 as well to build your TT up. My club in particular has a c150 that rents for $35 an hour...split that and youre spending $17 an hour. The twin my club has is a duchess and rents for $130 an hour...split that and your looking at $65 an hour for twin time, not too shabby. Split 100 hours in the twin would cost you $6500 and with the remainder of that $20k you could split almost 800 hours in the C150. 800 hours on top of your commercial ticket and 100 hours multi will get you a job at just about any hiring regional. Splitting time in my opinion gives you "real" experience, just wait for those overcast days and stay in the clouds. Best of luck to you.

 

[NYCPilot]

Whether or not the PFT stigma is an issue, you’ll learn to be a much better pilot listening to what these guys are saying. Most airlines as well as the paying passengers want to see someone who has instructed and had some 135 freight experience. These type of pilots tend to be very good candidates and have proven themselves by going out there and obtaining real world PIC experience. It’s not all about wearing the uniform and flying a jet. The uniform should connotate an image of someone who has earned his expereince and skills. You need to build up some real experience, otherwise your co-workers aren’t going to respect you very much either. Would you want to be a passenger on a flight where the pilot paid to fly you around and avoided the an important stepping stone part of his career. By flying around as PIC in some IMC, you’ll gain tons of experience. Also, flight instructing allows you to learn a great deal about flying by teaching it. They say teaching is like learning twice. Doing some 135 single pilot stuff will be scary at times and really build your confidence and decision making skills. You’ll also learn a lot of respect. If you’ve got all this money, I would get the CFI, CFII and MEI and instruct for a little while. Maybe on the side buy some multi time to meet some hiring minimums. Right now the regionals are doing a lot of hiring and you should be able to get on with one of them within a couple of years. You certainly aren’t too old to be hired and have a long successful career as an airline pilot at a good regional.

 

[hindsight2020]

500-600hrs PIC in a C-152.

Employment wise, is this really a viable option?? I pose this question assuming one understands the benefits of CFing and/or flying freight as it relates your piloting skills and overall wealth of experience in the quest of a 121 job.

I was reading up on the previous posts and was wondering if this is really something that would land you a job....or is it nothing more than a rhetorical exercise against the original PFT argument; where neither path would get you a job after the hours are dry in the logbook.

The second reason I wonder about it is that if in fact it is more than a rhetorical exercise, then wouldn't people strive to use this [C-152 ownership] as an alternative to flooding the CFI profession? I may digress there, as I understand the value of CFIng and the economic question that may keep people away from airplane ownership to attain the PIC time.

At any rate, I'd be interested to hear y'all elaborate on these points.

 

[Flic1]

As if the previous 30 posts haven't already said so, please, please, please do not spend the money on right seat jet time!!! If you want to spend some cash, at least go rent a twin and build some multi PIC time while instructing. It will get you to the same place that dropping $35k on 737 time will get you...an $18k regional job where you can wear a cool hat.

On a side note, who are these eaglejet.net fools?? I thought the B1900 operators like TAB were the only clowns selling right seat time but I see you can buy right seat in an A320, 757, etc??? Good grief....

 

[moxiepilot]

500-600hrs PIC in a C-152.

Employment wise, is this really a viable option??

As far as I'm aware this is where a large majority of candidates come from to fill FO positions at 135/121 operations.

I was reading up on the previous posts and was wondering if this is really something that would land you a job....or is it nothing more than a rhetorical exercise against the original PFT argument; where neither path would get you a job after the hours are dry in the logbook.

I think the ratio of employed FO's who came from a CFI/135 background outweighs PFT by a large percentage. I may be wrong, cause I'm just guessing, but I think that makes sense.

 

[TheGreatChecko]

Who are these eaglejet.net people? No seriously, its one of those things that just screams send us money, we promise we wil train you! Something isn't right here.

BTW, who pays for Navajo FO experience? Can you even log that?

Who wants to start a pool for when the state prosecutor's office starts investigating this place for fraud like TAB express?

757 FO time, something just doesnt sound right there. What airline in their right mind would allow this? Wait, don't answer that question....

Anyone in MIA want to stop by this place and see what kind of storefront they have rented for the month?

Checko

 

[NookyBooky]

Who are these eaglejet.net people? No seriously, its one of those things that just screams send us money, we promise we wil train you! Something isn't right here.

BTW, who pays for Navajo FO experience? Can you even log that?

Who wants to start a pool for when the state prosecutor's office starts investigating this place for fraud like TAB express?

757 FO time, something just doesnt sound right there. What airline in their right mind would allow this? Wait, don't answer that question....

Anyone in MIA want to stop by this place and see what kind of storefront they have rented for the month?

Checko

I'm suprised more airlines haven't caught on to this BS. This way management can brag about how much they're making off of Pilot Fares as well as passenger fares.

 

[Da Vinci]

it does make me a bit sick that i'm going into an industry...which cost me close to what my first house cost me, and i might have to pay to get a job. so that is why i've decided to go the CFI route. i guess now that i'm actually studying ... and ok it's hard... i started letting my mind stray to an 'easier' way. i'm quite convinced it isn't the way. if i lose one job opportunity after spending so much money and time at this...that is one job too many. i'm impressed with the majority of pilots who answered respectfully to my serious question.

 

[Da Vinci]

yes, eaglejet's an interesting organization by the way. i think i'd be completely humilited it i had navajo sic time in my log book. i was looking at the shorts program...which incidently is associated with air cargo carriers. but the thought of tossing 21,500 at a 'gamble' that could actually HURT my career is too much risk for me. i do split time in a 152 with my girlfriend who is also working on her CFI now. we both have hemroids now...:

 

[Nindiri]

Bottom line: Do what's best for you and don't worry about what other people think.

 

[onthebeach]

I might as well (sigh) weigh in on this PFT issue.

After all I have nothing better to do...and if that isn't that a d*mning indictment as to my quality of life right now, I don't know what is.

To Da Vinci, the original poster: Let me give you a little ray of reality, and I think you already know it but are just looking for some support on this board. Well forget it because it's not going to happen.

PFT is the reality for many operations today. It is not likely to change. It's similar to nuclear weapons, really...once we dropped a bomb the world would never be the same again. Now that PFT is established, the lower-paying jobs will always be PFT.

What this means is very simple: If you want a particular job that is PFT, you must PFT. No one who does not PFT will be hired.

What you are getting from most of these guys is the braying of dinosaurs. They may be young, but their minds are set by the injustice of it all. PFT isn't right! It just ain't right! ...is their attitude.

Well forget it baby. It may not be right but that's the way it is. The guys who don't PFT will keep on flight instructing for another couple years until they can find a freight job. Then they'll do that gig for any number of years...maybe, nowadays, for life...however long or short that may be.

In the end, yes, they'll have 10 times more "interesting experiences" in flight (and you know what I mean) to talk about; they'll have 100 times more weather flying than you, and a zillion times more [fill in the blank].

But you know what the bottom line is? You'll have the jet job and they won't.

Oh, have mercy, I can FEEL the flames of wrath I'm going to get from these people. But what I am telling you is the truth and deep down inside even they know it.

For what it is worth, yes, I wish things were different. I wish things were like they were back in the fifties (can you remember that far? Well let me tell you very few worked for an airline back then but when you did it was a pretty good deal. But I'll tell you the God's truth, there is no airline job I would take these days, what with the conditions these people have to work with.)

However, what floats my boat probably won't float yours, and vice-versa. You think you want to be a regional airline pilot. Good on ya, most people go through life without any definite goal.

So if the job you have identified as desirable and attainable is PFT, then you better get to PFT-ing and stop listening to these people bitch about PFT-ing, because that is the only way you are going to get the job. Period.

 

[moxiepilot]

i'm not sure i agree with on the beach, but I'm glad you've found some good responses to your question.