Why Can't Expressjet Reserves Get Consistent Golden Days Off?

[maxcackel]

POST OF THE YEAR!!!

I was FURIOUS how that was handled. Guys in upgrade training got the full captain share while I got the FO share because my class started a few weeks later.

HOWEVER.....If it was indeed a signing bonus, I would have thought it MORE fair even if I was a captain, to split it via a longevity formula with a maximum of 5 years, the term of the negotiations.

And don't forget the senior guys that opted out of the union when it came on property many years ago that don't pay dues that got checks for 25-30k!
I was a 6 year guy that got 12k and was appalled at how the MEC handled the junior guys while giving the senior guys that got a small raise a huge check. When we made our point to the mec in the crew lounge they argued until they got so frustrated Nick T. blew up and said "you may be right but tough we've got so much pressure from the senior guys that this is how we are going to do it and if you don't like it vote someone else in". Wow. Made me sick to know people just below me got a 1/4 of what I received.
Then the mec was against PBS up until they made a deal with company to be compensated for it. Then the worst used car sales job in history to the pilot group to sell us pbs began. The half truths and lying was horrible and the rest is history. People may like it but it is not what we were sold.
So the new elections began and Steve P. and Ricard V. promised a big change in the union if we voted them in. And as soon as they got in they voted in the old regime and gave a few that were promised out new jobs in the union. More corruption.
When I had a talk with Sterling R. and convinced him I was on his wave length (to retire ASA) as him to get the truth about the direction the MEC was taking he told me they are only looking out for the lifers to make sure they keep their jobs as long as they can and did not care about the junior group at all. I asked him how is that representing the whole group as an elected official and he said "It doesn't and we are doing what best for the people that matter, the senior group. Most of the junior people will leave anyway so we are looking out for us". He said he was very happy getting paid six hours a day and home every night with his family and planned to follow Chris's lead and keep his position as long as possible.
So you can forget about any quality of life improvements in the new contract for junior group and know anything they say to keep you happy is just a lie.
Harsh? maybe. Bitter? a little. But could not stand the constant deception.

 

[Redan]

And don't forget the senior guys that opted out of the union when it came on property many years ago that don't pay dues that got checks for 25-30k!
I was a 6 year guy that got 12k and was appalled at how the MEC handled the junior guys while giving the senior guys that got a small raise a huge check. When we made our point to the mec in the crew lounge they argued until they got so frustrated Nick T. blew up and said "you may be right but tough we've got so much pressure from the senior guys that this is how we are going to do it and if you don't like it vote someone else in". Wow. Made me sick to know people just below me got a 1/4 of what I received.
Then the mec was against PBS up until they made a deal with company to be compensated for it. Then the worst used car sales job in history to the pilot group to sell us pbs began. The half truths and lying was horrible and the rest is history. People may like it but it is not what we were sold.
So the new elections began and Steve P. and Ricard V. promised a big change in the union if we voted them in. And as soon as they got in they voted in the old regime and gave a few that were promised out new jobs in the union. More corruption.
When I had a talk with Sterling R. and convinced him I was on his wave length (to retire ASA) as him to get the truth about the direction the MEC was taking he told me they are only looking out for the lifers to make sure they keep their jobs as long as they can and did not care about the junior group at all. I asked him how is that representing the whole group as an elected official and he said "It doesn't and we are doing what best for the people that matter, the senior group. Most of the junior people will leave anyway so we are looking out for us". He said he was very happy getting paid six hours a day and home every night with his family and planned to follow Chris's lead and keep his position as long as possible.
So you can forget about any quality of life improvements in the new contract for junior group and know anything they say to keep you happy is just a lie.
Harsh? maybe. Bitter? a little. But could not stand the constant deception.

Despite the fact that you're telling it exactly as it is, just as I always do, stand by for the dipshot with his 1500 posts Little Joe (777Forever) to show up presently to tell you you're full of it.

 

[701EV]

And don't forget the senior guys that opted out of the union when it came on property many years ago that don't pay dues that got checks for 25-30k!
I was a 6 year guy that got 12k and was appalled at how the MEC handled the junior guys while giving the senior guys that got a small raise a huge check. When we made our point to the mec in the crew lounge they argued until they got so frustrated Nick T. blew up and said "you may be right but tough we've got so much pressure from the senior guys that this is how we are going to do it and if you don't like it vote someone else in". Wow. Made me sick to know people just below me got a 1/4 of what I received.
Then the mec was against PBS up until they made a deal with company to be compensated for it. Then the worst used car sales job in history to the pilot group to sell us pbs began. The half truths and lying was horrible and the rest is history. People may like it but it is not what we were sold.
So the new elections began and Steve P. and Ricard V. promised a big change in the union if we voted them in. And as soon as they got in they voted in the old regime and gave a few that were promised out new jobs in the union. More corruption.
When I had a talk with Sterling R. and convinced him I was on his wave length (to retire ASA) as him to get the truth about the direction the MEC was taking he told me they are only looking out for the lifers to make sure they keep their jobs as long as they can and did not care about the junior group at all. I asked him how is that representing the whole group as an elected official and he said "It doesn't and we are doing what best for the people that matter, the senior group. Most of the junior people will leave anyway so we are looking out for us". He said he was very happy getting paid six hours a day and home every night with his family and planned to follow Chris's lead and keep his position as long as possible.
So you can forget about any quality of life improvements in the new contract for junior group and know anything they say to keep you happy is just a lie.
Harsh? maybe. Bitter? a little. But could not stand the constant deception.

Max what year were you hired?

 

[maxcackel]

Max what year were you hired?

Just don't you worry about little old me.

 

[FightingIrish]

Maxcackel is a former member of the negotiating committee and had a falling out. Now he has an axe to grind. Ironically, he is attacking the very contract he negotiated. He doesn't work here anymore.

 

[777forever]

Despite the fact that you're telling it exactly as it is, just as I always do, stand by for the dipshot with his 1500 posts Little Joe (777Forever) to show up presently to tell you you're full of it.

You mad bro?

Maxcackel is a former member of the negotiating committee and has a falling out. Now he has an axe to grind. Ironically, he is attacking the very contract he negotiated. He doesn't work here anymore.

That explains it!

 

[Jackie Moon]

I voted no on the last contract purely based upon my throwing up over the mec's handling of the Retro pay turned "signing bonus"

Remember the bumpers stickers that said Retro pay to the last day?

That did NOT turn out so well for the junior guys & gals.

If you were a new hire over the five year negotiations, retro pay owed you $3500 for your first year alone (19 to 24 / hr.), let alone ~$4/hr for the years after your first.

If you were a senior 70 seat captain, retro pay yielded you NOTHING. This was because the senior 70 seat rates were already industry leading and did not go up with the new contract. I.E. The senior 70 seat guys were already earning their new contract pay for the 5 year period of negotiation.

The 1-3 year guys got what, $300 - $1k?

The Senior 70 seat guys got $20-23K.

Oh, and you can't forget the guys from the same class who happened to upgrade 1 month earlier than their buddies. The newly minted captain got $9k while their FO who was owed the exact same amount got $4k.

Your MEC at work. Argue you need retro pay... Get a high percentage of said retro pay. Realize that you don't want to give the money to the people who were actually hurt by the contract negotiations' duration. Write a formula based upon seniority and seat (neither of which have ANYTHING to do with retro pay) and then scam all the junior guys out of their money.

MEC=Sucks for the junior guy.

I brought up these points in the road shows for the last contract. I wanted a separate vote on retro and contract. The mec would not go for it. No way the retro would have passed on its own

 

[701EV]

Just don't you worry about little old me.

Max, I'm not worried about you!

I was hired in 99 and my retro check wasn't as big as yours.

Im just doing some figuring.

 

[maxcackel]

Maxcackel is a former member of the negotiating committee and had a falling out. Now he has an axe to grind. Ironically, he is attacking the very contract he negotiated. He doesn't work here anymore.

Nope try again. Not even close.

 

[FightingIrish]

Nope try again. Not even close.

I guess it is just a coincidence that you got hired at ASA the same time as YP. I guess it is just a coincidence that you left for Atlas the same time as YP. I guess it is just a coincidence that you commuted out of Florida like YP did. Lots of coincidences.

 

[FishandFly]

Why not stick to the issue(s) at hand?

 

[maxcackel]

I guess it is just a coincidence that you got hired at ASA the same time as YP. I guess it is just a coincidence that you left for Atlas the same time as YP. I guess it is just a coincidence that you commuted out of Florida like YP did. Lots of coincidences.

Beginning and ending dates way off. And why don't you worry more about the problems with your union reps than about trying to out me.
Typical union misdirection, don't acknowledge the truth of what is said and try to say I'm a disgruntled person that's been kicked out. So sad.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Beginning and ending dates way off. And why don't you worry more about the problems with your union reps than about trying to out me.
Typical union misdirection, don't acknowledge the truth of what is said and try to say I'm a disgruntled person that's been kicked out. So sad.

I feel your pain....:laugh: I'm very familiar with that misdirection...first hand experience. Tell me, why did you participate in that misdirection when it was directed at me?

Back to your point, I agree that it is issues that matter...

 

[JumpersAway]

Retro pay?????? They made it VERY clear several years ago that it wasn't true retro pay. It was a signing bonus.

Retro pay to the last day?!?!? Give me a break......good thing that didn't happen, as that would have dumped 1800 pilots on the streets with the collapse of the economy. You may be completely jobless, and unable to find work, but hey- you got an extra 20k to put in your pocket. At least that 20K would have paid to get your currency back up in order to find another job............................4 years later!

 

[FishandFly]

Retro pay?????? They made it VERY clear several years ago that it wasn't true retro pay. It was a signing bonus.

Retro pay to the last day?!?!? Give me a break......good thing that didn't happen, as that would have dumped 1800 pilots on the streets with the collapse of the economy. You may be completely jobless, and unable to find work, but hey- you got an extra 20k to put in your pocket. At least that 20K would have paid to get your currency back up in order to find another job............................4 years later!

I guess it's all a matter of your subjective frame of reference then...

Had you been hired in the early years of negotiations, you would have seen that both the bumper stickers and the logical argument for "retro pay" were a common theme of alpa and commonly understood by the pilot group.

The "logic" was that a company should not be able to delay a new contract and benefit from paying the wages of the old contract during the negotiations. The pay they agree to should be retroactive to prevent future incentive to delay an agreement.

I think it became clear at some point that both alpa negotiating committee and company didn't really want to get the negotiation done quickly, but we get what we get.

As for 100 percent retro pay bankrupting the company had we received that, that is not the point. What the MEC did was negotiate based upon the total retro pay owed the pilot group (due to the loss of wage that the new guys and the cr2 pilots had for 5 years) and once they received $14 Million dollars, they distributed it in a method that rewarded seniority/seat ($23k for senior 70 seat guys) and only $300 for a new 13 month FO, despite the FO being owed infinitely more than the senior 70 seat captain. In order to accomplish their task, they realized that their old terminology needed to be stopped immediately, so they killed "retro pay" and started calling it a "signing bonus".

The MEC simply pulled a good old Bait Negotiate and Switch tactic.

 

[www.]

More like a car pile up on the highway or a train wreck.



Please, for the benefit of everybody. Provide the FACTS of what went on? This is gonna be good.

If I wasn't there, neither were you, then let the facts come from that "actual" sources.

 

[www.]

I don't have a good answer for that. What the mec did was wrong and the junior people, many of whom probably struggled to take care of their families on $19/hr, were stabbed in the back whether they know it or not.

However, I'm not one to contend that a law or contract simply being voted in makes it right. In this case, I believe that the MEC deviously coerced the process on the backs of >1/2 of their pilot group to benefit the senior, which is why I am not surprised in the least when I hear of additional issues of character that they are being accused of.

And half the MEC are FO Reps correct?

 

[www.]

Like "muscling" the junior guy off the NC that was ACTUALLY concerned with working together to get things done? Is that some of the character issues you speak of?

Sir you really need to get a life. Your as bad as Jerry Springer OR McPrickle.

 

[www.]

Can you support your statement with any first hand knowledge, or is this hearsay?

Just pick up the phone and call both the person removed and the head of the committee. There is always 3 sides to a story not 2.

 

[777forever]

Retro pay?????? They made it VERY clear several years ago that it wasn't true retro pay. It was a signing bonus.

Retro pay to the last day?!?!? Give me a break......good thing that didn't happen, as that would have dumped 1800 pilots on the streets with the collapse of the economy. You may be completely jobless, and unable to find work, but hey- you got an extra 20k to put in your pocket. At least that 20K would have paid to get your currency back up in order to find another job............................4 years later!

Exactly, retro pay to the last day, that's hilarious. Following that lead ATL would be a 80% Skywest hub today. You guys need to learn when to be militant and when to play ball. Majority of FI'ers just want to go Fight Club on the company and or union all day every day. You may be big and bad but you know what? Jerry is that scrawny little kid at the bar you thought you could take but turns out to be a UFC fighter. Lights out.

The best pay and QOL increase XJT crewmembers can get at this point in the industry is not thru a new contract but through growth. You guys maybe sensing dejuvu here in a few months IF Skywest Inc gets awarded/purchases PNCL's 16 900s. Continuing to be militant and chest thumping may result in a Skywest base reopening in ATL. Those of you whining about reserve rules will still be on reserve for several more years as Skywest upgrades and hires continually. Keep stepping over dollars looking for pennies...