Why are you surprised????

JoeMerchant

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Pilots urge other Northwest unions to take cuts

Associated Press


MINNEAPOLIS - In an effort to preserve jobs and save Northwest Airlines from potential bankruptcy, the head of the pilots union is urging other unions to accept cuts.

Last November, Northwest's pilots accepted a 15 percent pay cut, becoming the first of the airline's major labor groups to ratify a contract that reflects the company's financial situation.

Northwest airline lost $458 million during the first quarter and is attempting to reduce its annual labor costs by $1.1 billion.

"The time has come for all union leaders to move beyond denial and anger and act responsibly for the good of their members," said Mark McClain, chairman of the Northwest branch of the Air Line Pilots Association.

The pilots' new contract saves the Eagan-based airline $265 million a year, and Northwest has reduced the compensation of its salaried employees by $35 million a year.

"Northwest, just like the other major carriers, cannot avoid bankruptcy if it continues to lose money at the current rate. It's that simple," McClain said in a memo to Northwest pilots.

A Northwest spokesman declined Wednesday to comment on the pilots' memo. Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's senior vice president of government affairs, did not speculate on the potential for a bankruptcy filing.
 

capt. megadeth

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By doing this, you are just avoiding the inevitable.

Start socking your money away boys and girls.
 

TAZ MAN

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capt. megadeth said:
By doing this, you are just avoiding the inevitable.

Start socking your money away boys and girls.
Whats the inevitable? Going out of business?

Of all people you should show some empathy. Just like you received when your airline went under. Now that you are in the pool at UPS your acting like an arrogant biatch.

I know you have a beef with SWA, but why NWA? Or is it all PAX carriers all together. We are all in this together. Whether its freight or PAX. We are one profession.
 

~~~^~~~

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Pilots urge other Northwest unions to take cuts

Associated Press


MINNEAPOLIS - In an effort to preserve jobs and save Northwest Airlines from potential bankruptcy, the head of the pilots union is urging other unions to accept cuts and consider whether they really need to live in their own homes.

Last November, Northwest's pilots accepted a 15 percent pay cut, becoming the first of the airline's major labor groups to ratify a contract that reflects the company's financial situation.

Northwest airline lost $458 million during the first quarter and is attempting to reduce its annual labor costs by $1.1 billion initially. Further cuts, concessions and pay for training in the DC-9 may be required to meet management objectives.

"The time has come for all union leaders to move beyond denial and anger and act responsibly for the good of their senior members on ALPA leave. Your wife's parents have a spare bedroom, use it..." said Mark McClain, chairman of the Northwest branch of the Air Line Pilots Association. Duane Woerth, President of the Airline Pilots Association, added that Regional Jets are responsible for the down turn in Northwests profitability.

The pilots' new contract saves the Eagan-based airline $265 million a year, and Northwest has reduced the compensation of its salaried employees by $35 million a year. Management has earned bonuses of 258 million, based on the cost savings, according to sources at the "Envision a new Paradigm" awards banquet at the Detroit Hilton.

"Northwest, just like the other major carriers, cannot avoid bankruptcy if it continues to lose money at the current rate. It's that simple," McClain said in a memo to Northwest pilots. "That is why managers must take as much money as they can from the Company now."

A Northwest spokesman declined Wednesday to comment on the pilots' memo. Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's Senior Vice President of Government Affairs, located in the Manolo Blanik shoe section of Nieman Marcus, did not speculate on the potential for a bankruptcy filing. Andrea Fischer Newman, Northwest's Senior Vice President of Government Affairs, was able to confirm that she save Northwest at least $125 on her expense account because her Manolo's were bought at a 20% discount because it was Wednesday and Nieman Marcus has a sale on Wednesdays and sometimes on Thursdays and Saturdays.

Northwest stock is trading up 2% on the news to $5.00, off its previous high of $38.26.
 
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capt. megadeth

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TAZ MAN said:
Whats the inevitable? Going out of business?

Of all people you should show some empathy. Just like you received when your airline went under. Now that you are in the pool at UPS your acting like an arrogant biatch.

I know you have a beef with SWA, but why NWA? Or is it all PAX carriers all together. We are all in this together. Whether its freight or PAX. We are one profession.
Chill out dude. No, that's not what I was talking about.
Pilots (or whatever work group) take pay cuts to "save" company. The vicious cycle of $hitty management who are not held accountable for anything continues. Work groups are asked to take more pay cuts. That's the inevitable! No matter what you do, they will take and blackmail you for more. Instead of fixing the problems, they will just take more from the labor groups BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY HAVE YOU BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDPLACE.

Has your blood pressure come down now Taz? Chill out....I am on your side.

For the record, the only thing I have a beef with is arrogant and incompetent management that gets rich off other's back. K?

And YES I have a big beef with SWA and ATA.
 

Photoflight

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~~~^~~~ said:
Management has earned bonuses of 258 million,
Someone tell me that management didn't give themselves 258 million in bonuses after getting nearly that much in paycuts??
 

mystere

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capt. megadeth said:
Chill out dude. No, that's not what I was talking about.
Pilots (or whatever work group) take pay cuts to "save" company. The vicious cycle of $hitty management who are not held accountable for anything continues. Work groups are asked to take more pay cuts. That's the inevitable! No matter what you do, they will take and blackmail you for more. Instead of fixing the problems, they will just take more from the labor groups BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY HAVE YOU BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDPLACE.

Has your blood pressure come down now Taz? Chill out....I am on your side.

For the record, the only thing I have a beef with is arrogant and incompetent management that gets rich off other's back. K?

And YES I have a big beef with SWA and ATA.
try decaf there MZ....

what's your beef with ATA? they are an HONESTLY different airline...
 

canyonblue

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capt. megadeth said:
And YES I have a big beef
I have a big beef also.;)
 

Remington

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mega,
what is your beef with ATA and SWA?
ATA because your little saab job got swiped from you?
SWA because they are the single most sucessful airline EVER?
Just curious, thanx.
 
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720degpersec

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canyonblue said:
I have a big beef also.;)

Longer, bigger, faster.....the new A340-600 !

Heard UPS is going to go all Airbus. For crosstraining purposes...
 

klhoard

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720degpersec said:
Longer, bigger, faster.....the new A340-600 !

Heard UPS is going to go all Airbus. For crosstraining purposes...
.
.
.
Ooops, someone should call their aircraft purchasing department, quick!! UPS just ordered some brand spankin' new 747's. (not an Airbus product)
.
.
.
 

capt. megadeth

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Remington said:
mega,
what is your beef with ATA and SWA?
ATA because your little saab job got swiped from you?
SWA because they are the single most sucessful airline EVER?
Just curious, thanx.
Well, if you must know....

ATA because they let a profitable great little airline go down the toilet because they couldn't manage properly if their life depended on it.

SWA because I think they saw C8 as possible competition (think future here....ie. RJs kiddies. It's not like they are stupid obviously) and probably told ATA to shut them down.

ATA and SWA because a lot of great people lost their job for no really good reason.

The list goes on and on but those are the highlights.

Before ya all freak out, don't bother, because THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL I WILL EVER BELIEVE THAT SWA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHUTDOWN OF C8! Now, excuse me....time to take the BP meds......

One more thing....for the record, I WAS NOT AT CHICAGO EXPRESS WHEN they closed their doors. I had already left.

Now, let's please get back to the original topic....I have beat this one to death already. Thank you.
 
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TAZ MAN

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capt. megadeth said:
Well, if you must know....

ATA because they let a profitable great little airline go down the toilet because they couldn't manage properly if their life depended on it.

SWA because I think they saw C8 as possible competition (think future here....ie. RJs kiddies. It's not like they are stupid obviously) and probably told ATA to shut them down.

ATA and SWA because a lot of great people lost their job for no really good reason.

The list goes on and on but those are the highlights.

Before ya all freak out, don't bother, because THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL I WILL EVER BELIEVE THAT SWA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHUTDOWN OF C8! Now, excuse me....time to take the BP meds......

One more thing....for the record, I WAS NOT AT CHICAGO EXPRESS WHEN they closed their doors. I had already left.

Now, let's please get back to the original topic....I have beat this one to death already. Thank you.
So if Airtran got the deal you think that C8 would still be flying. And you "think" SWA told ATA to shut it down because of future competition with RJs.

We know your upset because of your friends and your, I think fiance, were affected by the shutdown. I admire your loyalty on this one.

You are holding much hate for unsubstantiated assumptions.

I have been furloughed twice. Never went back to either airline. I never took that personally. This is an extremely volatile industry. It has been since the beginning. Even freight will have its moments. It already has.

Its business. And its one that sucks. If we didn't like it so much, it wouldn't be an issue.
 

arthompson

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Its business. And its one that sucks. If we didn't like it so much, it wouldn't be an issue.[/QUOTE]

Amen Taz, None of us would be in this business if we didn't love what we do.
 

PropsR4Boats

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Sometimes I think these union heads are being handing fists full of cash.
 

capt. megadeth

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TAZ MAN said:
So if Airtran got the deal you think that C8 would still be flying. And you "think" SWA told ATA to shut it down because of future competition with RJs.

We know your upset because of your friends and your, I think fiance, were affected by the shutdown. I admire your loyalty on this one.

You are holding much hate for unsubstantiated assumptions.

I have been furloughed twice. Never went back to either airline. I never took that personally. This is an extremely volatile industry. It has been since the beginning. Even freight will have its moments. It already has.

Its business. And its one that sucks. If we didn't like it so much, it wouldn't be an issue.
1. Yes, I "think" that and so do a lot of people I know, including pilots at SWA

2. You are right, I should let go of the hate and use my energy elsewhere

3. Yes, I am paranoid about issues with freight as well.

4. Yes, it is an ugly industry

5. I understand SWA has a business to run and I don't blame them for looking out for their own interests but it doesn't mean I won't be pissed about it.

Take care.
 

TAZ MAN

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capt. megadeth said:
1. Yes, I "think" that and so do a lot of people I know, including pilots at SWA

2. You are right, I should let go of the hate and use my energy elsewhere

3. Yes, I am paranoid about issues with freight as well.

4. Yes, it is an ugly industry

5. I understand SWA has a business to run and I don't blame them for looking out for their own interests but it doesn't mean I won't be pissed about it.

Take care.
I know SWA pilots as well. And I can say they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The Chiefs have no idea. Maybe the VP of ops, but he isn't talking either. Its one of the traditions of the airline. So to say that SWA pilots think so as well....is again unsubstantiated and based on assumption with absolutely no evidence from anywhere.

ATA went bankrupt. C8 was a casualty because of that. Plain and simple.

Answer me one question. Where would C8 be today if ATA took the Airtran deal.

I actually see if there is to lay any blame its on C8's management. They are ultimately are the ones responsible for their own demise. Maybe without choice. They are the ones who set up the framework for their future that didn't work out.

Do yourself a favor and stop being pissed at the things we have no control of. Learn from them and move on like you have done. Your in the pool of a good airline that will be more likely to give you what we all deserve for our hard work, stability.
 

Ty Webb

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TAZ MAN said:
Answer me one question. Where would C8 be today if ATA took the Airtran deal.

.

Probably sold off or spun off, but still flying. That would be my guess.

While we're at it . . . we have hired dozens of ATA pilots since the SWA buyout . How many ATA pilots has SWA hired? Friends at SWA tell me "not many". Any truth to that?
 

capt. megadeth

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TAZ MAN said:
I know SWA pilots as well. And I can say they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. The Chiefs have no idea. Maybe the VP of ops, but he isn't talking either. Its one of the traditions of the airline. So to say that SWA pilots think so as well....is again unsubstantiated and based on assumption with absolutely no evidence from anywhere.

ATA went bankrupt. C8 was a casualty because of that. Plain and simple.

Answer me one question. Where would C8 be today if ATA took the Airtran deal.

I actually see if there is to lay any blame its on C8's management. They are ultimately are the ones responsible for their own demise. Maybe without choice. They are the ones who set up the framework for their future that didn't work out.

Do yourself a favor and stop being pissed at the things we have no control of. Learn from them and move on like you have done. Your in the pool of a good airline that will be more likely to give you what we all deserve for our hard work, stability.

Thanks for the input TAZ. You can stay in la la land all you want in regards to the SWA thing. How can you blame a management that did not have a choice? That's like blaming the gun manufacturers for someone's murder (ie. makes no sense whatsoever). I am not trying to be rude here, but have you been smoking crack tonight? Ok, I am done with this. Let's just agree to disagree. You think what you think and I will think what I think, K? Good nite. Let's let this horse lie.
 

capt. megadeth

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Ty Webb said:
Any truth to that?
Yes, a lot of truth. (hence, my other big beef with SWA since someone wanted to know). Every person from ATA that I know of that interviewed has been turned down.
 
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