Who's a bigger bottom feeder, ASA or Mesa?

[Tomct]

Dick your name says it all! I can't believe that this post has gone on for almost 4 pages. All of us need to stop giving this numb nts the time of day. Have fun flying into the night.....oops....where did I put that manifest?

 

[bustinmins]

As a LAMA, I would have to say MESA blows much more. Don't get me wrong - the people I worked with at Mesa were tops but the company as a whole - blows!!!

 

[Shrek]

GoJet is the worst bottom feeder.............case closed

 

[belchfire]

All regionals are bottom feeders. They either suck hind tit off some "legacy carrier" getting fee for departure or government cheese from EAS. Corporate makes money off people working for crap pay when they have SJS and then get trapped as a CA and can't afford to take the pay cut to move on somewhere else.

It's a simplification of the whole picture but is factual as far as it goes...

Comair at one point raised the standard-it took a three month strike. I wonder if anyone understands that the aforementioned so called Legacy carriers will never again be what they once were and as a group will stand their ground and demand what they are worth. The places to advance to have gotten fewer and the end gains are far lower than they once were.

The next five years are going to be interesting...

 

["GO AROUND"]

No, I don't work for Cherry Air but those guys are a good group of freighters and always fun for a late night beer at the freight-hole.

Does it matter? They're all the same. So, because your friend at ASA is an idiot and can't bid, ASA is a bottom feeder? 2 years on the 200 can hold weekends off, not sure about the 700 or ATR. But I would think a line holder.

 

[Steve]

TSA is the biggest bottom feeder. After all they hired curtis malone with 44hours of multi time!! (Refer to my avitar)

 

[spitfire1500]

Its all bout 121 PIC Turbine... I dont care who you talk to or how much you make.. This industry is a roller coaster and we are starting to go back up the hill....

Flying your freight is probably a good job, but when you are 50 years old and you have your weekends off US 121 "gear jerkers" will have WEEKS off not just weekends.. you must pay your dues.. what goes around will come around if you are smart

I fly cargo and get 2 weeks off at a time.

 

[Skaff]

Sounds like Dick didn't get hired at ASA or MESA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes, Joe. I can, without a doubt, say that the quality of the job at ASA is far better than it was at the handful of freight outfits I flew for. The flying here is probably not as rewarding in an, "I alone got the job done" kind of way, but the 121 airline gig is a better deal. Among other things, in the time I've been at ASA I have not yet been sent off to an airport that was closed due to a local militia uprising (Llano San Juan, outside of Ocozocoaulta during a bad time in the Chiapas rebellion... but that's another FAR more interesting story for another time), although every time I head down to Dothan I half expect Johnny Reb to have reclaimed the airport in the name of Dixie!

In all seriousness, Joe, I bitch because I know things here could be so much better, and I feel most of our woes can be blamed on management (we will have to agree to disagree on this one). However, there can and always will be far worse places to work. I want ASA to be the best work environment possible, just like you. However, we just have different opinions on how to achieve that.

For what it's worth, you and I are not as far apart as some of my remarks may lead you to believe. Just like you, I realize ALPA has dropped the ball in a monumental way. However, (and here's where we differ) we could have the most iron-clad scope in the world, but if our management continues to fail to perform on even the most remedial level, our clients (in this case, Delta) will find a way to send their business elsewhere. Scope has been abrogated in courtroom after courtroom. Thus, while I see it as an essential contract goal, I don't think it is the penultimate answer. I tend to think the best solution lies in providing a quality product at a reasonable price (yes.. I said it.. I think we are asking for too much, and I have made my opinion known). I also think our success hinges upon having a management team capable of transforming our operation, such that it is, into a functional airline. In that regard, my freight time was more rewarding than my airline time. Say what you will about Mx, pay, schedules, and whatnot, but the people that run the small freight operations in this country know how to run a business.

FmrFreightDog,

Good post, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. Your right that we aren't as far apart as it would appear.

However two things about the "performance" part of your post.

1. The recent 90 seat flying went to Pinnacle and Mesa. Both of these carriers are worse than ASA. This is about not allowing ALPA to ever get control again like it used to have. If this were about performance, then Pinnacle and Mesa wouldn't have gotten this flying.

2. As bad as ASA can be, and yes it can be bad, it is better than it used to be, it is improving, and it is better than other carriers that have been awarded Delta flying.

If even you admit we are asking for too much now, then why are we still asking for it?

Good post for what it is worth....

 

[dooork]

MESA/Freedoms performance is far better than ASA....get your sh#t straight.

 

[MELIT]

ASAholes. nuf said!

 

[Quimby]

Wow so you are better then ANY SINGLE RJ pilot out there? You must be a blast be around. So you must wear your Rayban Aviators to the bar and sport a Tom Selick moustache and a 2 inch tool. Then tell every chick on the property you are a pilot. Get over your self loser

nominee for post of the year.

 

[Quimby]

So you enjoy working for your money? That's great. You keep right on doing that. I'll let other people do the work for me. Enjoy tossing your own bags while I toss your girl's salad.

this one too......

 

[FmrFreightDog]

FmrFreightDog,

Good post, and I don't disagree with most of what you said. Your right that we aren't as far apart as it would appear.

However two things about the "performance" part of your post.

1. The recent 90 seat flying went to Pinnacle and Mesa. Both of these carriers are worse than ASA. This is about not allowing ALPA to ever get control again like it used to have. If this were about performance, then Pinnacle and Mesa wouldn't have gotten this flying.

2. As bad as ASA can be, and yes it can be bad, it is better than it used to be, it is improving, and it is better than other carriers that have been awarded Delta flying.

If even you admit we are asking for too much now, then why are we still asking for it?

Good post for what it is worth....

I'm not sure I agree that Mesa & Pinnacle have worse performance numbers than ASA. I'll admit, I don't have numbers to back it up, but I think ASA's numbers are worse.

As for why are we still asking for too much, I'm not the one doing the asking. I wouldn't be surprised to see ALPA back off a little bit during the next negotiating dates.

 

[pdub20s]

MESA/Freedoms performance is far better than ASA....get your sh#t straight.

Damn F*CKN Skippy LOL

 

[ChickenSled]

Here are some hard numbers for you.

I'm not sure I agree that Mesa & Pinnacle have worse performance numbers than ASA. I'll admit, I don't have numbers to back it up, but I think ASA's numbers are worse.

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/2007/April/200704atcr.pdf

Here are some official DOT numbers that would appear to back up your statement, at least for January and February of this year. I doesn't appear that the DOT was including stats on Pinnacle last year. I would wager that Pinnacle had drastically better numbers for most of last year, as from March or so onward, 9E was somewhat properly staffed, at least by comparison to now. Here are a couple of links which will back up that assertion:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=131072&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914477&highlight=

Last March, 9E went 8 days and 6020 flights without a cancellation:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=131072&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=838919&highlight=

Keep in mind that in January and February, 9E was in the process of absorbing those 17 Mesaba CRJ-carrots that NWA loaned to management, so the performance was somewhat remarkable, considering there was no staffing to cover these planes. I'll also wager that 9E won't fare nearly as well when the March data comes out, as the absorption of those jets vs. the 9E staffing model (sorry, lack of such a model) reached critical mass that month.

As far as I can tell, Mesa's numbers are equal to or better than ASA's in most regards.

1. The recent 90 seat flying went to Pinnacle and Mesa. Both of these carriers are worse than ASA. This is about not allowing ALPA to ever get control again like it used to have. If this were about performance, then Pinnacle and Mesa wouldn't have gotten this flying.

2. As bad as ASA can be, and yes it can be bad, it is better than it used to be, it is improving, and it is better than other carriers that have been awarded Delta flying.

As for JoeMerchant, now that I've supplied you with some hard data from credible sources, do you still stand by your original statements?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Feb. DOT statistics for cancellations - percentage of flights cancelled:

CMR: 10.61%
MESA: 7.43%
Pinnacle: 6.36%
ASA: 5.35%
Skywest: 4.89%

 

[frapper]

I flew with a newbie last week that expects to hold a line within a month on the CR2! At any rate, it'll be under 2 months for him to hold a line...

 

[ChickenSled]

Feb. DOT statistics for cancellations - percentage of flights cancelled:

CMR: 10.61%
MESA: 7.43%
Pinnacle: 6.36%
ASA: 5.35%
Skywest: 4.89%

Nice job digging all the way to the bottom of that file finding the one statistic in which ASA was superior to Pinnacle. Did you also read the note that said that the cancellations count against the ontime rate, which 9E clearly beat you on. Or did you miss the part where I said that 9E was absorbing 15 jets while EV remained stagnant and lost LAX flying, and 9E still stompped your tail in every other statistic. I didn't even bring up the fact that 9E has ACARS, so we don't fudge our out/in times. Don't bring up the whole ATL thing either, Citrus seems to do just fine there, never mind the fact that 2 of 3 9E hubs are serviced by XJ, and they like us less than you do and don't do us any favors from time to time.

I see you haven't posted in nearly 4 days, hope I didn't hurt your pride that badly.

But if I didn't, I will. Here is a little tidbit that you might find quite amusing. According to airlinepilotcentral.com, for a CRJ-200 Captain until year 13, 9E captains make on the average 1-2 dollars more than an EV captain. Given the fact that the average 9E pilot will upgrade anywhere from 1-5 years sooner than your average EV pilot, you can rest assured that any of your peers in longevity at 9E have earned more than you have. Given the fact that our ontime performance is much better, they have spent less time doing it as well.

 

[Shrek]

....I didn't even bring up the fact that 9E has ACARS, so we don't fudge our out/in times.

YOU are clueless......