Who is Freedom and Why are they in my Backyard?

[T-handle]

HEY DELTA MGMT: HOW BOUT YOU STOP LINING YOUR POCKETS WITH BONUSES, AND INVEST THE MONEY IN YOUR COMPANY FOR SUCCESS! MAKE YOUR CUSTOMER HAPPY, MAKE YOUR EMPLOYEES HAPPY, AND YOU WILL GET YOURS!

This is the clear difference between the "legacy" carriers and LCCs like Southwest. Legacy carriers will never change their "attitude" towards employee relations. They want them all fighting and want the lowest bidding war. SWA on the other hand: Employees first.

 

[Big Air]

Freedum

I think we'd all be better off if Mesa had let Freedum die once all of the jets were brought back under the Mesa certificate. But Mesa didn't, it put one or two B1900s on the cert to keep it alive, and to make Mesa marketable to a carrier like Delta.

Lets not forget: Delta is doing the 'end-around' on the scope. Mesa is the vehicle.
Delta is the bad guy here, not Mesa.

 

[bitememesa]

Your comment indicates that you believe that Mesa pilots had something to do with the survival of Freedom. In fact you're full of s$it and it really shows how no one has any clue why Freedom was created, or why it survived with a B1900 up in New Mexico.

In fact, at my airline, the pilot group has nothing to do with operating certificates. That's stuff for management. What management does with their airplanes and their staffing levels, like I'm sure it says in your contract too is THEIR business.

Were we all furious when we would out the certificate was surviving on a loophole? Yes.

Could we do anything about it? No.

Some idiots will never die. Especially the ones with a F8 Badge.

 

[islandhopper]

Your comment indicates that you believe that Mesa pilots had something to do with the survival of Freedom. In fact you're full of s$it and it really shows how no one has any clue why Freedom was created, or why it survived with a B1900 up in New Mexico.

In fact, at my airline, the pilot group has nothing to do with operating certificates. That's stuff for management. What management does with their airplanes and their staffing levels, like I'm sure it says in your contract too is THEIR business.

Were we all furious when we would out the certificate was surviving on a loophole? Yes.

Could we do anything about it? No.

Some idiots will never die. Especially the ones with a F8 Badge.

Revenge of the F8 Cert. This is Johnny pump & dump's way of saying "FUKK ALPA and FUKK YOU!!!" He is a sociopath and out of control. Instead of the Mesa MEC drawing the line they are busy justifying the Mesa syndicate, JO, and his thugs. Delta is in bed with a real freak this time!

Mesa is willing to routinely stick their noses where it doesn't belong. From the Eastern seaboard to the Hawaiian Islands JO is making enemies faster than he can tro it in and pull back out.

I'm not into the Delta/DCI politics but you guys got a real wild card thrown on the table now.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Sure is odd to see so many angry RJ pilots in regards to Freedom, TSA, and Gojet. These same pilots that accuse Mesa of "selling their soul" are the same types that gladly take mainline jobs away w/ 70 and 90 seaters. They fight against mainline scope, join the RJDC, hate flowbacks, and now bitch that someone will undercut their flying. Talk about greedy.

Don't so stereotyping and lump all the regional pilots into that group. We don't all want to stay at a regional for our whole career, nor fly a 70 or 90 seater at the regional level.

<-- At least one pilot who would like to fly a 90-110 seater at mainline for a mainline wage.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

one pilot who would like to fly a 90-110 seater at mainline for a mainline wage

I sincerely doubt that when the time comes for you to make that move there will be any jobs worth having.

The days of the $200,000+/yr "mainline" job are all but over. With the advent of the 70, 90, 110, seat aircraft on feeder property there are significantly fewer "mainline" jobs available.

You would be better served to fight for improved compensation, benefits, and lifestyle at your current company... than to dream of a career that will likely not exist for you.

The airline pilot profession can no longer be served by growing the top-end. Attemping to improve pay, retirement, lifestyle for the most senior pilots will cause the system to collapse. This house needs a strong foundation. ALPA's weakest members need the association to support improvements in THEIR contracts. If that doesn't occur the bar will continue to topple until -- in 5 or 10 years -- we're on here arguing about why DCI can't fly the Airbus 380RJ.

Want to take bets on whether ALPA is willing to take that step?

 

[Dodge]

Let's all get something straight.

1. The Freedom pilots are not scabs.

2. If you bash Freedom its the same as bashing Air Midwest and Mesa. This is 100% incorrect.


The original Freedom pilots that started the whole mess are the truest scum. A lot of them were current Mesa pilots that thought it was a good idea to undercut fellow pilots on their own seniority list. That takes real class and even though they weren't scabs, it doesn't take much of an imagination to believe that these esteemed pilots would scab if given the chance.

Many Mesa pilots hate these individuals more than anyone else at any other airline. They cost them big time in their contract negotiations. Again, real classy.

 

[stall022]

Let's all get something straight.

A lot of them were current Mesa pilots that thought it was a good idea to undercut fellow pilots on their own seniority list.

only about 50 out of 1300 mesa pilots crossed over to freedum when it was started.

 

[Anais Nin]

There is a list of the original pilots (if you can call them that) that went to Freedom the first time. Obtain that list please and reference it often. I can tell you that many are still flying at Mesa, reintegrated into the pilot roster. Many have quit Mesa and aviation altogether. They are unscrupulous people who deserve nothing but a hard time in this industry. For the most part the majority of them have said that they'd pursue employment at JetBlue (non-union shop). One has even successfully been able to get hired there. For the life of me I dont know how! But I guess JetBlue is out of the loop on this one!
The second coming of Freedom Airlines for Delta WILL be unionized, part of Mesa Air Group, an ALPA represented carrier. Under a crappy CBA currently, no doubt. But that was ALL thanks to the original Freedom pilots who made negotiating anything other than holding onto their jobs impossible for the Mesa pilots.
In the 121 world I have only flown for Continental Express years back, but I can confidently say that each 121 regional will be facing this type of situation in the coming years. (GoJet, Republic, etc.) It's just a matter of time. It seems that Mesa was simply the first to go through it. Probably because JO is so aggressive and looks ahead to the future so much more. Mostly to find new and creative ways to screw his labor groups. And hoard more money for himself.
Mark my words though, the high and mighty on this board that think they're immune will be eating their words eventually.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

............

 

[Dodge]

only about 50 out of 1300 mesa pilots crossed over to freedum when it was started.

50 pilots is a lot considering that they were 0 before. Like I said, real class acts over there.

 

[Superkell]

Hold Short

No, I think he was bashing the Freedom scumbags that underbid (wow) the Mesa pilots and went around the union to give a reacharound to Jonny O. Why in the hell ALPA let these self serving dickholes in I have no idea. Actually I do...but it still sucks.

Wait a minute! ALPA has denied some of them membership!

 

[Superkell]

There is a list of the original pilots (if you can call them that) that went to Freedom the first time. For the most part the majority of them have said that they'd pursue employment at JetBlue (non-union shop). One has even successfully been able to get hired there. For the life of me I dont know how! But I guess JetBlue is out of the loop on this one!
.

There are at least 4 at Jet Blue. Be careful about the list. Not all of them were at Mesa before the little party. Only about a third of the list.

Lots of America West Pilots have it and deny them JS.

I am not on the list so please don't ask.

 

[Anais Nin]

There are at least 4 at Jet Blue. Be careful about the list. Not all of them were at Mesa before the little party. Only about a third of the list.

Lots of America West Pilots have it and deny them JS.

I am not on the list so please don't ask.

Really? I'm quite sure I have an accurate list of the original Freedom scums (cant call 'em scabs), and it doesn't even pertain to me. I've long since left the 121 world for a corporate gig. However I feel pretty confident that the list I have is accurate. My wife was a Mesa captain until a few months ago when she left Mesa for SWA. I had no idea a full 4 have gone to JetBlue! How sad!
The chaos, and the resulting contract (which everyone on here bashes, not knowing anything about it) has made me want to get the word out to everyone about the Freedom issue. Those that speak without knowing all the facts, we all know who they are, are just speaking in complete ignorance!
The America West pilots who deny the jumpseat to those on "the list" are complete heroes and should be comended for their efforts! I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

 

[av8tor4239]

I know the severity of the lable of being a SCAB. I am curious.. What is the difference of crossing a picket line, and doing what Freedom "bus Drivers" (I wont call them pilots) do, what a scab does.. RUIN CONTRACTS AND RUIN LIVES


Are all you telling me that a Freedom bus driver would not cross a picket line.. COME ON.. THE JOB THEY TOOK WAS SOLELY CREATED TO BYPASS AND UNDERCUT CONTRACTS! Specifically the Mesa contract. Now ASA, CONCESSIONAIR (Comair) oh yeah, they were looking out for themselves, chitaco, and skywest are in the same boat that Mesa was in when FREEDOM was founded! Their contracts are vulnerable because these WHORES are willing to do it cheaper and with alot less class than we can!

These Freedom guys and spit-tails are nothing but embryonic SCABS in my book!

BRING IT