Who is Freedom and Why are they in my Backyard?

[ohplease!]

I know the severity of the lable of being a SCAB. I am curious.. What is the difference of crossing a picket line, and doing what Freedom "bus Drivers" (I wont call them pilots) do, what a scab does.. RUIN CONTRACTS AND RUIN LIVES


Are all you telling me that a Freedom bus driver would not cross a picket line.. COME ON.. THE JOB THEY TOOK WAS SOLELY CREATED TO BYPASS AND UNDERCUT CONTRACTS! Specifically the Mesa contract. Now ASA, CONCESSIONAIR (Comair) oh yeah, they were looking out for themselves, chitaco, and skywest are in the same boat that Mesa was in when FREEDOM was founded! Their contracts are vulnerable because these WHORES are willing to do it cheaper and with alot less class than we can!

These Freedom guys and spit-tails are nothing but embryonic SCABS in my book!

BRING IT

I, for one, will be glad when that vessel in your brain blows and you go away. Dang! like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Sorry folks. I know he's one of ours but, I didn't hire him.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Ignorant people like you should post less and read more...

you might learn something...it could happen.

I know the severity of the lable of being a SCAB. I am curious.. What is the difference of crossing a picket line, and doing what Freedom "bus Drivers" (I wont call them pilots) do, what a scab does.. RUIN CONTRACTS AND RUIN LIVES

Are all you telling me that a Freedom bus driver would not cross a picket line.. COME ON.. THE JOB THEY TOOK WAS SOLELY CREATED TO BYPASS AND UNDERCUT CONTRACTS! Specifically the Mesa contract. Now ASA, CONCESSIONAIR (Comair) oh yeah, they were looking out for themselves, chitaco, and skywest are in the same boat that Mesa was in when FREEDOM was founded! Their contracts are vulnerable because these WHORES are willing to do it cheaper and with alot less class than we can!

These Freedom guys and spit-tails are nothing but embryonic SCABS in my book!

BRING IT

Wow.............., I'm still in awe from your classiness...........impressive.......

Obviously you do NOT understand the definition of a scab - someone that crosses a picket line and performs work in the place of people on strike. There was no strike at Mesa. There was no picket line to cross. Therefore they are not scabs. Would they have crossed a picket line if they had the chance...who knows? Some say they would not have...others don't bring it up. I choose not to be hateful and bitter. The person that I am really frustrated with is JO.

They did not "ruin" my life. I still have a job and make a good living supporting a wife and two kids. What they (speaking of the Mesa pilots who chose to go to Freedumb - NOT the new hires) did do was make it difficult/impossible for us to focus our contract negotiations on pay and quality of life issues and instead use most all of our bargaining power to focus on scope issues.

I suspect the effects of Freedumb will not ruin your life either. Guys like you that whine and b!tch and have probably only been in the industry a few years or less are annoying. You speak as if the world owes you something, anything. Stop playing the victim...it's pathetic and it gets old fast. The airline industry is first and foremost a BUSINESS with the goal of making money. Money for whom? Now that is a good question and a whole other topic.

MAG pilots are not the cause of Delta and DCI's problems now, nor will they be in the future. Delta is in REALLY bad shape financially (the sooner you realize this, and act gratefully for what you do have, the better) and they are simply looking to keep costs contained. It's not personal - it's business.

Get over yourself...the world does not revolve around you. B!tch less, be happy and have a good life. Best wishes in your career.

Spiff

 

[CRJDog]

Freedom is Mesa just like Air Midwest is Mesa. Just different certificate. Same pilots and same seniority list. Just continue bashing Freedom keeping in mind you are bashing all the pilots at Mesa.

Nothing wrong with that. Mesa management and the dumbazz pilots that voted for that garbage contract should just go take a long walk off a short pier. Mesa is a cancer to this industry.

Every time I deadhead on Mesa the service sucks. The FA makes US look so bad with their sh*tty appearance and attitude.

 

[exagony]

I thinks its funny how all the Mesa, CHQ and TSA pilots are all crying about another pilot group undercutting them to get some flying - isn't this the same thing thay Mesa, CHQ and TSA have been famous for in regaurds to the pilots at the WO airlines of US Air, Delta and AA? Now you get to experience the same sh*t that you have doled out for years.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Confused here....

I thinks its funny how all the Mesa, CHQ and TSA pilots are all crying about another pilot group undercutting them to get some flying - isn't this the same thing thay Mesa, CHQ and TSA have been famous for in regaurds to the pilots at the WO airlines of US Air, Delta and AA? Now you get to experience the same sh*t that you have doled out for years.

Another pilot group undercutting them? Did I say that another pilot group undercut us at Mesa (can't speak for the rest)? (No, I did not. Read the post again if you care to.) I don't remember hearing that from any other Mesa pilot either.

If you are referring to my comments about Freedumb, actually I think the original Freedumb pilot payrates were slightly better than the payrates at Mesa (I'd have to check that out to be sure). It was not a matter of under-bidding us (a concern, yes, but minor in comparison)...it was that we at Mesa were left with greatly reduced bargaining power in what we hoped would be our first good contract.

No crying here though. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Another example of extreme class

Nothing wrong with that. Mesa management and the dumbazz pilots that voted for that garbage contract should just go take a long walk off a short pier. Mesa is a cancer to this industry.

Every time I deadhead on Mesa the service sucks. The FA makes US look so bad with their sh*tty appearance and attitude.

I can understand your anger and frustration. I am guessing that you work for PSA (or some other part of US Airways). You guys have had a pretty bad ride the last several years.

So are you saying that if Mesa had not ever become a US Airways Express affiliate that the industry would be all peachy keen? Or maybe just US Airways would have lived happily ever after...yeah that's it. Mesa is out to ruin your life, right?

As for Mesa management, yeah JO can be a real a$$ (who should know better than us)...but, he's our a$$ and his ambition is keeping our company heading towards bigger and better things...or maybe glorious smokin' hole...we'll see.

The majority of Mesa pilots voted for a contract that we thought was necessary to secure our jobs. It was far short of what we had hoped for. Maybe our expectations were too high...who knows. It's not really any of your business though, is it?

Most Mesa FAs are inexperienced and poorly trained. The turnover rate is astronomical I'm sure. There are many that do a great job though. Some of our experienced FAs are in PHX. Your point is well taken, however it sounds like you're not exactly an objective judge.

My few experiences non-reving on PSA way back when I was on the US Airways side of the company (still have the full uniform) were all very pleasant. The Do-328 was a comfortable ride and the FAs were professional and friendly.

Spiff

 

[ash5855]

As for Mesa management, yeah JO can be a real a$$ (who should know better than us)...but, he's our a$$ and his ambition is keeping our company heading towards bigger and better

So do we take this statement to mean that part of you approves of JO's plan of undercutting every other regional airline out there with his "lowest costs"
(as long as the growth benefits you it's OK right?)

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

This is a BUSINESS right?

When you talk about undercutting...what is wrong with undercutting? The airline industry is a business right? Don't give me this "brotherhood of pilots" crap. Does American want Delta in business? Does SWA want US Airways to go under? SWA is waiting with a thick wallet full of cash for US Airways demise.

Doesn't SWA undercut other airlines? You think that SWA pilots were always the highest paid pilots in the industry? People used to say a lot of the same things about SWA pilots...they work for peanuts...they fly more and get paid less...blah blah blah. Is Mesa the next SWA? Almost certainly not - JO is smart, but his management style will come back to haunt him sooner or later.

If you are asking me if I want the company that I work for (MESA) to succeed - then the answer is YES! Do I want them to succeed in legal and ethical ways - of course. So, what is your point?

 

[japhy]

*To the originator of this thread, I advise you to get educated on the CURRENT Freedom Airlines situation. It will save yourself the embarrassment of looking like a complete moron. I sometimes wonder how anybody could make it this far lacking the professionalism, and minimal education to make a sound post. Obviously you have chosen to hide behind a screen name to seek your answers, good luck with getting the right ones!

Too late. If you have read any of his other posts you'd already know he was a moron.

 

[av8tor4239]

Spaceman Spiff:

You are the perfect example of why this business is in the TOILET.. YOU are willing to do the job cheaper than the next guy.. Then someone comes in and does the job cheaper than you, and because you are spineless you bend over for your managment and do it cheaper than the guy that undercut you!

TOILET BOWL SPIN TO THE BOTTOM THANKS TO JERK OFFS LIKE YOU.

At what point will you say HELL NO? Or are you willing to work for FREE?

As far as being a scab.... You are right by the definition of SCAB :"One that crosses the pickett line." Although you have not had the opportunity to cross yet, (I can tell your spineless being is salavating at the chance) I strongly believe you would. I believe this way because of the actions of you and your pilot groups for the past DECADE! All you have done is moved into established markests and undercut the guy that was currently performing the job. Therefore I call you and the freedom pilots embrionic scabs.. They are not quite scabs yet, but their actions of today represent their intentions of tomorrow given the opportunity!

 

[captain caveman]

Maybe our expectations were too high...who knows. It's not really any of your business though, is it?

Actually it is our business. Now that Freedom will be flying DCI, the rates that we are hoping to negotiate will be that much more difficult, considering the substandard rates at which Mesa operates.

 

[captain caveman]

Doesn't SWA undercut other airlines? You think that SWA pilots were always the highest paid pilots in the industry? People used to say a lot of the same things about SWA pilots...they work for peanuts...they fly more and get paid less...blah blah blah.

Comparing Mesa to Southwest is unreasonable. Unlike Southwest, Mesa does the same thing as the rest of the regional industry, only for less compensation. And Mesa operates bigger aircraft than most other regionals, but for less compensation, like the one in your avatar.

 

[captain caveman]

At what point will you say HELL NO?

Let's hope they do in the next round, no matter what it takes. In the meantime I hope Mesa can enforce the contract they have now.

 

[CRJDog]

I can understand your anger and frustration. I am guessing that you work for PSA (or some other part of US Airways). You guys have had a pretty bad ride the last several years.

So are you saying that if Mesa had not ever become a US Airways Express affiliate that the industry would be all peachy keen? Or maybe just US Airways would have lived happily ever after...yeah that's it. Mesa is out to ruin your life, right?

Not just my life but the lives of everyone that flies for a regional carrier. Why should we be paid more if you wh*res will step in and do it for sh*t work rules and compensation? You have not only made the bed for yourselves but for all of us as well. Now we have to lie in the sh*t you made.

The majority of Mesa pilots voted for a contract that we thought was necessary to secure our jobs. It was far short of what we had hoped for. Maybe our expectations were too high...who knows. It's not really any of your business though, is it?

Read above and it is very much my business.

Most Mesa FAs are inexperienced and poorly trained. The turnover rate is astronomical I'm sure. There are many that do a great job though. Some of our experienced FAs are in PHX. Your point is well taken, however it sounds like you're not exactly an objective judge.

Quite a few of your FA's suck and smear our image. It does not take a brain surgeon to realize that an FA with his shirt tail hanging out and silver oakleys on his head is not the proper way to maintain a professional image. Not to mention that his back was turned most of the time while doing his safety demo. JO doesn't give a sh*t. Mesa is still getting their money for a half-a*s product and dumbazz mainline pays them. I am not saying they all suck but everytime I deadhead or non-rev on your flights they do.

 

[crj579]

I think we need to call the WAAAAbulance for most of you all. Quit your dam$ whining. What do you expect to accomplish?

 

[av8tor4239]

crj579:

I laugh because the whores of the regional industry dont know what they are doing to our jobs as a whole.... They think it is ok to undercut the undercutters.. LOL..

These people are robots.. Might as well be the "Mokey in Space".

My purpose is to indentify these people, give them a dose of reality, and show that until Freedom, GoJet embryonic scabs of the sort stop undercutting other companies contracts they will be working for free soon!..

Many of you might be pleased, but if ASA votes in concessions because the FREEDOM WHORES are in our DCI network I am out of here! There is way more to life than working for free just to be a 121 pilot. We are already cheaper than greyhound.... www.greyhound.com

 

[drag]

I agree with your post. However, can't it be argued that these "robots" are exactly what you did to mainline carriers. Not trying to stir the pot, but keeping things in perspective.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

I have a feeling you are going to be leaving then...

crj579:

I laugh because the whores of the regional industry dont know what they are doing to our jobs as a whole.... They think it is ok to undercut the undercutters.. LOL..

These people are robots.. Might as well be the "Mokey in Space".

My purpose is to indentify these people, give them a dose of reality, and show that until Freedom, GoJet embryonic scabs of the sort stop undercutting other companies contracts they will be working for free soon!..

Many of you might be pleased, but if ASA votes in concessions because the FREEDOM WHORES are in our DCI network I am out of here! There is way more to life than working for free just to be a 121 pilot. We are already cheaper than greyhound.... www.greyhound.com

Face it...if you work for ComAir or ASA you work for an airline (Delta) that is on the verge of financial catastrophe...and here you are b!tching about possible concessions at ASA. It's guys like you that have no clue, and to blame your sh!tty lifes problems on Mesa is cowardly. Boo Hoo! LMAO

 

[islandhopper]

The airline industry is first and foremost a BUSINESS with the goal of making money. Money for whom? Now that is a good question and a whole other topic.

Get over yourself...the world does not revolve around you.

Spiff

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Who is making the money is NOT A TOPIC for another discussion. That is exactly what this discussion should be about.

Mesa Airlines is a ponzi type/pyramid scheme and I can't wait for the whole thing to implode. There will be dancing in many a crew room on that day.

 

[SPIM]

I thought we liked capitalism in the United States reading these posts it seems like the pilots on this board dont. Socialism seems to be more in line with your(collectively) viewpoints.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Capitalism is loosely based on the principle of "buy low" and then "sell high" with the hopes of retaining an excess amount in the end - "profit".

Pilots are, more and more across the spectrum selling their labor for less and less money, thereby minimizing their total returns effectively minimizing their end "profit" from their initial investment in their training.

When we sell for less and less, that is not capitalism.

It's cannibalism.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[av8tor4239]

Thanks Ben, you are right on!



SPACE MAN....> YOU ARE A WHORE TO OUR DELICATE INDUSTRY

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

see...the 300 hour guy gets it...why can't you?

I thought we liked capitalism in the United States reading these posts it seems like the pilots on this board dont. Socialism seems to be more in line with your(collectively) viewpoints.

People only like capitalism when they are the ones that get rich and famous. Otherwise they b!tch, complain and cry like a victim. Management is raping and pillaging the poor working class again!!! And those whores that work for less than me! How dare they encroach on MY/OUR industry!!!

av8tor4239 = another victim of the cruel capitalist society

I mean it makes ZERO logical sense av8tor4239 ...your airline performs with such high quality, why can't Delta see the light and pay you guys XXX,XXX? dollars a year...I mean you are worth it right? Is Delta just that stupid or what? Yeah, they must be.

What about the Airtran guys are they whores? They fly comparably sized equipment as Delta pilots for less money with only a 401k for retirement. Well, those SOB's are whores aren't they?!?!

I like how you always say "our" like we are not a part "your" industry. Therein lies the root of your attitude problem.

 

[av8tor4239]

SPACE MAN:


AIRTRAN... YES they are WHORES... And that makes you the ULITMATE WHORE.. You are even more of a whore than AIRTRAN, JET BLUE (who wants to get rid of the 8 hour max block rule) and every other airline that thinks they can do it cheaper than the other guy.... If you could you would undercut thier sub-standard contract if that ment you could fly a "CRJ-1000" on their route.

AirTran is doing to DELTA, USAIR, UNITED, etc. the same thing that you have done in the past to all regionals, and will soon do to the Delta Connection Network!

I say "our" becasue you are an unfortunate part of the industry we work in.
Even though you are not wanted, you are here, and there is nothing I or anyone else can do to stop you from whoring out your talents, or lack there of, therfore decreasing the ability of good hard working pilots to make this job worth its weight in gold.

SPACE MAN: Before you know it, you will feed AIRTRAN and JET BLUE, and you will own the entire DOMESTIC INDUSTRY; But the funny thing is that you all will have APES in the right seat becasue you will be working for FREE.
You have no legs to stand on Space man... You are the scum whore of OUR industry.. REALIZE IT

 

[Anais Nin]

Gosh av8tor, I feel so sorry for you! You are an angry little man! Please, seek help!

 

[av8tor4239]

I am not angry, Rather I am realistic..

It is my responsibility to my profession, myself, and those that have walked the line before me to uphold the standard that is required of a professional aviator.

There is no exception there is no excuse

The men and women before you did not walk the line in vien....

Families did not starve through strikes so you could whore your talents...

WE MUST HOLD THE LINE.... THAT RESPONSIBILITY IS ON OUR SHOULDERS!

 

[bitememesa]

Whaa!! Mesa Stole My Lunch Money!

Boohoohoo...people are getting all agitated sitting at their computers on a saturday night, complaining about how Mesa stole their lunch money.

Know what? Get over it. We won, you lost, and if your product had been superior in EVERY way, then your precious regional would have been the only one to aquire 60 new airplanes worth of flying in the last 4 weeks...ya dig?

Folks, the glory days are over. Period. We have lost the war to low cost carriers, and people that work at Air Tran, Southwest, Jet Blue et al, while your business plans seem foolproof, you will end up the fools when your costs rise and you are unable to raise your ticket prices and maintain your passenger base.

However, I would impress upon EVERYONE the fact that the only person who can successfully drive wages and compensation the other direction is you. You and your brothers at ALPA. You can be unified, you can be persuasive, you can take charge. You can GET INVOLVED and quit COMPLAINING. You want to win? Then take your next pay concession all the way to binding arbitration like the folks at Alaska did.

My advice to you if you're not ACTIVELY trying to raise the QOL at your airline: Come to work at Freedom and get in on the little secret meetings with Johnny O and his clan. Then you'll be a real winner...you got to talk to the most influential CEO in airline history besides Frank Lorenzo and Gordon Bethume. Well...Herb too.

Get over yourselves ego biotches.

 

[MINIME]

Gosh av8tor, I feel so sorry for you! You are an angry little man! Please, seek help!

Yes, he is angry but he's absolutely correct for the most part. It's no accident that Mesa is now in the Delta network. Comair has a nice contract and DAL would love nothing more than to get rid of it. ASA is trying to negotiate but Mesa's presence has the potential to make that more difficult.

I'm not trying to blame all Mesa pilots but I will put blame on Freedom guys. They contributed a great deal to make Mesa accept their current CBA. Now J.O. walks about this industry, free to underbid just about anybody.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Delta does not care about the quailty of Mesa's "product". Whatever that is. They care that they are CHEAP. Sucky airlines are the reason this job has gone down the proverbial toilet.

 

[OPECJet]

Hope you guys have your Freedom A list handy.....