Who hires Green Card-Holders

[E120ASA]

Go home and fly. Biggest mistake the FAA ever made, they should have given you a temporary certificate. good for one year..... Your country won’t take us why should we... also illegals go home. I have had enough.

 

[Boris Badenov]

That's some serious outrage. In principle, of course, I agree that one ought not to complain about foreigners doing jobs in America, if the same opportunities are available in the other direction.

That's maybe where we part company. Anyone who has looked in to it is aware that it's practically impossible for an American to get the right to work in the EU, particularly in flying, short of marrying someone. The number of foreigners I hear on frequency suggests to me that maybe the reverse is not the case.

Anyone have any numbers on EU ----> US immigration versus its reciprocal? I'd be happy to wager that Europeans come out on the better end.

And yes, that makes me angry. It would make you angry too, if you and yours were the ones getting the shaft, then hearing Americans making (unsubstantiated) allegations about European countries being "anti-american".

 

[767200]

Go home and fly. Biggest mistake the FAA ever made, they should have given you a temporary certificate. good for one year..... Your country won’t take us why should we... also illegals go home. I have had enough.

Other countries will take you as long as you have their equivalent "green card/citizenship" and the required experience.

 

[Alfa Romeo]

I have flown for a 121 carrier as a green card holder. I grew up in a poor country and even riding on an airplane was never affordable to me, let alone fly one. I applied for a green card about 12 years ago and got it about 5 years ago. After I came here I was able to work and go to flight school and eventually even get an airline job. I don't agree with people that came over here and then bash the US and the people here. Yes I also disagree with somethings, but I neither do I complain about the background check paperwork that I have to fill out till I am eligible for citizenship here nor about the people who have a bit of cynical views about foreign nationals. I have experienced discrimination in small or large amounts, but I choose to ignore it and move on because I also know that there is a majority of people here who are very welcoming and accomodating. I have never even have been denied a jumpseat because of my color etc. 99% of the crews and people in the aviation and majority of american people have been very nice to me. I was able to fulfill my dream about flying because I came here, whatever I earned till today is because I was offered an opportunity by the american people and I will never forget that. So as for people that choose to leave their own country and live here and yet always complain about things here, I just have to say, they can always go back!
Also why is there a fight and bashing each other on a thread that started as a simple question as to which airlines will hire a green card holder?
Just my opinion....

 

[Rottweiller]

Other countries will take you as long as you have their equivalent "green card/citizenship" and the required experience.

EXACTLY! I used to fly cargo in Europe and there were Americans, Canadians, Africans etc amoungst the crews. They all had the right to work in Europe and had acceptable licenses. The fact is that, as pointed out earlier, the FAA license in many countries isn't worth the paper (or plastic now) that they are printed on.

Compared to many countries the FAA license is a cake walk to acquire both with the simplicity of the knowledge required (plus you can get the answers in a book) and the flight tests. Go and do the JAA ATP or better yet the UK license and see how "easy" it is. I hold ATP's from 4 different reglatory agencies and having the FAA one first in no way prepared me for the others when it came to the writen tests.

If you look at the INS / DOJ site most of Europe, and many other countries are excluded from programs like the Greencard lottery. I would imagine that most of the foreign voices that you hear have either married an American, have a non US born parent married to an American to name a few and can have a greencard or citizenship when the return / move to the US. So yes if you want to work in say Europe those countries just afford the same stipulations that say a European citizen is subject to when trying to live and work in the US.

It bugs the $hit out of me when some think they have been hard done by and can't fly elsewhere just because they have a license when they can't even meet, or are prepared to, the requirements for other countries.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

entittlism

Age 5: " Mommy doesnt love me 'cause I didnt get the christmas gift that I wanted"

Age 16: " My dad sucks! I wanted that brand-new Mustang."

Age 35: " Dam-n foreigners are taking all of our jobs! Go Home! My jobs, my country, mine, mine, mine....." (Even though there are plenty of American crews flying for Cathy Pacific, VirginAtlantic, JAL....)

Get your fatass off the sofa and do something for your country! when was the last time you've made an effort to be an American?(except bitching, which is our nation's favorite passtime) When was the last time you earn your keep? Put a flag on your truck doesn't make you more American either.

 

[Sunnfun]

I want to get a job at Luftansa. I am American and yet they don't invite me for an interview.

And so do a lot of germans. Lufthansa has probably the toughest hiring standards in the whole of europe. They haven't hired ready-entries for years.

What a bunch of crap. We give people from other countires airline jobs here, so why does it not work they other way.

Learn the language and apply. I did the same. Still waiting for Delta to call me.

No, seriously, it's not really that much different: Get the right to work, get the license and learn the language and you can apply. Whether you get the job is a different story. Same as in the US.

 

[ProLine4]

Lufthansa has probably the toughest hiring standards in the whole of europe. They haven't hired ready-entries for years.

I was in class with a former German (now US) citizen that interviewed with LH. There are 3 interviews per candidate, one randomly conducted fully in German, and numerous written tests. All of this is well before your stick and rudder skills are evaluated...I don't know anything about that stage, because he didn't make it to that point.

 

[Brasgaucho]

How long is it taking the DOJ background check for you guys (non US citizen/green card holders)?

 

[Weasil]

no more than 2 weeks usually.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

"No, seriously, it's not really that much different: Get the right to work, get the license and learn the language and you can apply. Whether you get the job is a different story. Same as in the US."
-------

true true true

 

[((7))]

"Get the right to work".

True,True,True......My A**......

The green card procedure itself has several different categories. The best, from the worker's point of view, is EB-1, the so-called National Interest Waiver. If the worker can document that he is of truly exceptional talent, i.e. world-class, he can actually sponsor himself for a green card, thereby avoiding the indentured-servant problem . There are also the EB-2 and EB-3 green card categories, which are employer-sponsored.

Does Holland, Germany, France, Austria allow a "exceptional talent" to qualify for a self sponsored "Green Card"? I wonder how many EB-1, EB-2 and EB-3 are in the future? Just think, a US airline pilot workforce calls a strike and then the Fatcats at Corporate America comb the world for "exceptional talent", with the added bonus of EB-2 or EB-3 status of sucking the Company hose with added enthusiasm.

 

[jayme]

I think if you went through the immigration process you would change your tune. I tried applying under EB1. You need to have 3 of 10 things going for you. Things like nationally recognized awards in your field and articles published in trade magazines. On top of that you need to prove it is in the nations best interest to approve your case. No matter how hard I tried, I could not satisfy the requirements.

You seem to know what you're talking about. Please don't exaggerate to try to make it look like the world is against Americans.

 

[((7))]

I think if you went through the immigration process you would change your tune. I tried applying under EB1. You need to have 3 of 10 things going for you. Things like nationally recognized awards in your field and articles published in trade magazines. On top of that you need to prove it is in the nations best interest to approve your case. No matter how hard I tried, I could not satisfy the requirements.

You seem to know what you're talking about. Please don't exaggerate to try to make it look like the world is against Americans.

To bad, so you had to settle for the EB2 or EB3? Congress (USA) has passed the latest H-1b increase maybe some of your buddies can slide into a part 121 job for $7.50 per hour (block time).

 

[Sunnfun]

To bad, so you had to settle for the EB2 or EB3? Congress (USA) has passed the latest H-1b increase maybe some of your buddies can slide into a part 121 job for $7.50 per hour (block time).

Please don't confuse the issues. a) Getting a work permit and b) getting a job for a european airline are two entirely different things and equally difficult in the USA.

a) is highly dependant on your personal situation, backround and history or whether or not you have a potential employer with some pull with the INS (or bcis or uscis or whatever they call themselves these days). Or both. Or just enough money to pay to those immigration lawyers. Same in any given european country. True in almost any line of business. Engineering and computer science are also very competetive (especially for people from the far-east and india).

To understand b) you have to realise that most if not all european airlines have so-called ab-initio programs where they train (highly selected) cadets from 0 hours to ATPL. It's completely normal for a junior F/O to start flying the line on 737s and A320s with just shy of 300 hours (This is not a typo, three-hundred!).

Since people are lined up around the corner for those ab-initio programs, there is enough supply for the demand. Those rejected by the major airlines finance their training themselves (up to 40,000 Euros plus Type Rating) in all kinds of FTOs (call it PFT if you will) and apply for the rest of the jobs (= Corporate, Charter and small regionals). The "CFI-Way" is very unusual in europe.

Bottom line is, the job market is highly competetive even without non-eu people. BUT if you have the right to work and you do qualify for whatever job you apply for, there's a chance for you. There's a lot of US-(and other) expats flying all over europe.

Be reminded though, that you compete with eu citizens who have loans for 40,000 Euros and are willing to work for literally nothing!

 

[Tinstaafl]

Actually it's more like 60,000 GBP for many of these 0 to CPL/instrument/ATPL exams (aka known as 'frozen ATPL'), plus the 2000 pound 'multi-crew cooperation course' (MCC) that was introduced by the Joint Aviation Authoties. No such requirement in the US.

In many ways it's *easier* to get work approval at least somewhere in Europe. There are many, many countries so many people from overseas can find some claim to being acceptable somewhere. Don't forget to include the numerous colonies/ex-colonies who have a claim, grand-parent eligibility in the UK etc etc. Widening the region somewhat, Australia has a points system: if you can produce sufficient reasons (all weighted on a points system) to add up to 100 points then you're in. Some things that count: Education level, relatives already in the country, skills/qualifications that are promulgated by the government as being 'in demand'.

Similarly, if you marry a citizen from one of the European countries, Australia, New Zealand etc then there's usually minimal paperwork or delay to gain living & working approval - unlike the US where it can take a year or more. 6 months just to be approved to enter the US as a fiance(e), another 6 months to a year to finally be allowed to stay, not able to leave the country without applying, and paying for, 'advanced parole' or the whole application process is cancelled, as is the ability to re-enter the US.

I strongly suspect those who say it's not fair, it's so much easier to get into the US, they're taking jobs etc are those who have never been involved in the process, either to emmigrate or immigrate, nor do they have credible information about the numbers of US pilots flying elsewhere in the world. Ever consider that expat US pilots are doing the same?

 

[SBD-2U3]

Wow... Someone from europe who knows that " There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch". You my freind are among te few unlike the USA where it is almost expected. Stay Strong and earn your way. Your parents taught you well.

 

[Tinstaafl]

More accurate to say I'm from Australia although born in the UK. Fortunately we escaped from pommyland when I was just a tot.

 

[Weasil]

Tinstaafl, not too many americans are going to know where pommyland is.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Who said this?

"I'd kill a Communist for fun. But for a green card, I'm gonna carve him up real nice!"


Extra credit:

"....and if anything happens to that buy-money....eeeeeeee, pobreceeeeeeee. My boss is gonna stick your head up your ass faster than a rabbit gets **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed!"

[just wanted to give the censor algorithm something to really work on]

LIBERTAD!

 

[auspac]

Part of the reason why this green card holder is here is because during our ALPA strike in the late 80s we had a bunch of US scabs happily take the jobs at Ansett and Qantas

 

[SERPICO]

1989 !!!!! Do we have to go there....yawn. Don't go insulting the place that now brings home the bacon. Plenty of Aussies took those jobs too.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Plenty of the Oz 89'ers were quick to drop back into Oz GA during their 'strike', preventing those trying to move up from getting a, or better, job so it's pots & kettles. Anyway, they resigned from their jobs so others can hardly be a scab for accepting employment. Once they resigned they lost any claim to a position as well as protection under employment laws. The advice they took was stupid in the extreme.

Do I agree with how the military were used to replace the civil airlines & break the union? No. Nor do I agree with the way the Oz government treated them. But I also don't agree with what the 89's did.

 

[MED]

Just sue the company who won't hire you because you're a greencard holder. That's discremination, greencard is authorization to work as far as I know.

 

[auspac]

"1989 !!!!! Do we have to go there....yawn. Don't go insulting the place that now brings home the bacon. Plenty of Aussies took those jobs too."

Hell YES we have to go back there. Ask a United guy if they have to go back to 1985. I agree that Aussies scabbed the jobs as well. A scab is a scab regardless of citizenship. Just don't imply that foriegners stealing jobs doesn't go both ways. I'm a foriegner here - but never a scab.

And Tinstaafl, you may have left "pommyland" as a tot but you certainly still sound like a pom.

 

[Weasil]

here we go. you should have seen the thread on 89ers on pprune. it ran for pages. "yawn"

 

[Tinstaafl]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if I want to get in a slanging match about '89. If Auspac wants to continue then do it on another thread. It wasn't even mentioned until Auspac couldn't leave it alone

 

[bushpilot29]

Pinnacle does hire the Green-card holder.
Also to you all spoilt American brats with their big fat (I am American)pride..Take chill..
Does anybody know American history when all the people in Usa were originally immigrants except from the poor NAtiveAmericans.
Whom you fore-fathers put them in the reservation & performed mass killing in the past.

 

[goofyleftwich]

do some research........there are quite a few PFT operators out there

 

[cape]

nobody does now cuz TSA does the background check now and they need atleast 30 days and u need to have ypur ground school scheduled they will still call yoou for an interview to make it look good and send you a rejection letter no matter how you do