White House Bent on destroying Air Line Pilots via Foreign Control

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My principles are to not get screwed over my people who claim they are my "brothers"......Look around this sorry excuse for a union....there isn't much "brotherhood"....even you gott'a admit that....

Sounds like naive expectations on your part. Perhaps you should have been more realistic...

I will never trust ALPA again......That is one of my "principles".....

That is not a principle... that is a withdrawl defense mechanism....

Before ASA had Agency Shop, most pilots still contributed....However ALPA is becoming less popular by the day.....as evidenced by the Herndon cheerleaders such as yourself out doing full court presses to try and keep everyone on the reservation.....

Wrong again...

you need to hate guys like me to make up for your inabilities.... lack of skillset and poor expectations...

All your problems are within.... but you cannot accept ownership of your own problems...

Not me.....I think we would be better with an in house union and single list with the Skywest pilots....I'm not against having a union....just against ALPA.....

Just like the USAPA guys... arrogant teenagers who think they can do better yet they have no concept of paying bills, going to grocery store, etc...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The immediate threat to us regional guys is competition WITHIN ALPA.....Keep your eye on this pitch before you start to worry about the next pitch.....If you can't hit this one, you will probably miss the next curve ball also.......

It would be nice if it was all single task orientated like a pitch per play...

The fact that you can't manage multi tasks is your problem... but you like to blame others...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

copilotdoug- will you reply to post #43?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Well... isn't that for the electors to determine? Do the delegates bear any responsibility for electing him?
Who does Prater serve? A good question.
What to do if two candidates present themsleves for election.
Candidate A: a management suck up who will give away the store
or
Canadidate B. A serve serving narcissist who is determined to make his life better at eeryones expense.

So... who would you vote for?

I'd call for a change to the benefits package. Take away the cheese and the Rat won't come to the party.

And is it ALPA's fault there are not better candidates?

Yes it is. How long has ALPA been using this ineffective system? ALPA is like the Titanic, and the changes in the industry are like icebergs. ALPA gets its momentum moving in one direction and can't change course quick enough.

And you expect the ALPA president to serve you. Fine. And what about you? You are a professional. The definition of a professional is one who serves their industry, public and profession. So if ALPA officers are to serve then so shall you. Would the profession be better if everyone had a service mentality?

Just curious, when you had your first airline interview, did you mention to your future employer that you were there to serve the Union first, and then your airline?

If all prfoessional pilots had a mindset to make the profession better.. then it would be better?
To show up fly a safe trip and go home is easy. Anyone can do that... the question is... was the place better after you left. Unfortunately... too many guys leave it worse...

Better HOW, Rez? My line of thought on the word "Better": Longer rest, more benefits, and higher pay. You've already said that ALPA does not control hiring or firing or sign the paychecks...which is fair enough. But what is your perception of "Better" ?

And this is an inherent problem: As long as the membership expets to be served instead of serving the profession we will wallow in mediocracy.

Ok, I'll agree with you there. There are some pilots that do take all they can get away with. Are those who show up on time, perform their duty as asked, and go home, to be blamed?

The UAL guys had to have thier man elected... so they went to the CAL guys and horse traded. It threw the election.

Is that ALPA's fault?

Yes.

So.. an illegal strike. Please contrast the PCL guys and the PATCO strike.

They cannot be compared since it has not been tried yet.

Can you be more specific in HOW you think it will be succussful?

If you notice, I've provided links and websites in this and previous posts to better explain what I am talking about. Or examples of illegal job actions, PATCO and the APA....

So you're going to base your actions off fear? Way to go, Applewoman! You're more concerned about the "enigma" called ALPA than you are the Pilots. Don't do that, they'll sue ALPA!

Flint Auto Strike of 36. It was a succesful strike where the workers dismissed a court ordered injunction to go back to work.

That is like faulting Einstein for not building a space craft that exceeds the speed of light...

Wrong. One deals with the LAWS of Physics, the other deals with socioeconomic systems where change can be inflicted. You just need balls.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'd call for a change to the benefits package. Take away the cheese and the Rat won't come to the party.

So if the ALPA Prez pay were a Million a year would there be more candidates to choose from or less?

Yes it is. How long has ALPA been using this ineffective system? ALPA is like the Titanic, and the changes in the industry are like icebergs. ALPA gets its momentum moving in one direction and can't change course quick enough.

Its called Democracy! The same system as our beloved USA.

Just curious, when you had your first airline interview, did you mention to your future employer that you were there to serve the Union first, and then your airline?

Over 90% of the guys that have gotten hired in the last year at my regional were ALPA volunteers. They didn't advertise they were ALPA volunteers but the recruiters could tell they had an attitude of 'how can I make it better..' 'not what is in it for me..'

Better HOW, Rez? My line of thought on the word "Better": Longer rest, more benefits, and higher pay. You've already said that ALPA does not control hiring or firing or sign the paychecks...which is fair enough. But what is your perception of "Better" ?

You've proven my point... you want it better for YOU. What is in it for YOU. More rest for ME. More benefits for ME, higher pay for ME!

That is not serving the profession. That is serving self. It is counter productive and destructive.

Serve the profession! The problem is...every pilot, including ALPA pilots are serving themselves. AND that is the problem with ALPA.

ALPA pilots are pissed off cause they are not getting what they think they should for themselves from ALPA. So they poke thier head into the ALPA tent and say, I want change. They have no clue how the system works. They pout and whine and because of that they get shown the door. Who wants to deal with crybabies and whiners right or wrong. Now those ALPA pilots are pissed cause they got dissed.

Do you think ALPA pilots can be a bit more educated? They give 2% for 25-30 years and they don't do a thing in terms of self education. Yet pilots will read thier FOM and AFM.

Ok, I'll agree with you there. There are some pilots that do take all they can get away with. Are those who show up on time, perform their duty as asked, and go home, to be blamed?

YES! of course. This type of person is the worst!

those who show up on time, perform their duty as asked​

Anyone can show up on time, perform their duty as expected. Anyone! You want to be recognized for doing what is expected of you? There is nothing progressive about that. Nothing professionial about showing up on time and doing your job... that is what hotel maids do.. not professionals....

Do you want your doctor to show up on time and do his job? Or do you want him to show up early, read the latest medical journal and prepare in advance for your medical procedure?

yes

Why?

They cannot be compared since it has not been tried yet.

You don't know about PATCO do you?

So you're going to base your actions off fear? Way to go, Applewoman! You're more concerned about the "enigma" called ALPA than you are the Pilots. Don't do that, they'll sue ALPA!

I provide links and you reply with this?

Flint Auto Strike of 36. It was a succesful strike where the workers dismissed a court ordered injunction to go back to work.

Question.

Is it 1936?
Is this the Auto industry?
Are assembly line workers professional pilots?
Where is the RLA?

Wrong. One deals with the LAWS of Physics, the other deals with socioeconomic systems where change can be inflicted. You just need balls.

Problem is during the BK era, pilots didn't have balls like you wish. Pilots didn't want to strike. They wanted to save thier jobs. Even last years May 17th rally basically had a no show. Did you show up with your big steel balls of resovle.

Fact is... democratically, Air Line Pilots aren't as ballsey as you are...

so quit blaming ALPA.


Look at your mangina pilots....


Why don't you rally them.... show them how its done!!

 

[CopilotDoug]

So if the ALPA Prez pay were a Million a year would there be more candidates to choose from or less? Today, you'd have more...and it'd be for the money, not the duty.

Over 90% of the guys that have gotten hired in the last year at my regional were ALPA volunteers. They didn't advertise they were ALPA volunteers but the recruiters could tell they had an attitude of 'how can I make it better...' 'not what is in it for me...'ALPA recruiters or company HR? And I am all about helping the company out. But the minute the CEO and the members of mahogany row look after their best interests in the form of payouts...I go back to the job description.

You've proven my point... you want it better for YOU. What is in it for YOU. More rest for ME. More benefits for ME, higher pay for ME!WRONG AGAIN! I want it better for ALL pilots. You say it as if rest is a bad thing. I guess I'm just safety conscious. And yes, when bonuses are being handed out like candy at the top, you better believe I am going to have my hand out. Without our hard work, their would be no bonuses at the top.

That is not serving the profession. That is serving self. It is counter productive and destructive. Tell that to the SWA pilots. I bet if you ask nicely, one of them will walk your resume in.

Serve the profession! The problem is...every pilot, including ALPA pilots are serving themselves. Wrong! Try again.

Anyone can show up on time, perform their duty as expected. Anyone! You want to be recognized for doing what is expected of you? There is nothing progressive about that. Nothing professionial about showing up on time and doing your job... that is what hotel maids do.. not professionals...

You don't know about PATCO do you?Actually, I do. A college professor of mine was in the military as a controller and he was called in during the strike.

Question.

Is it 1936? Yes
Is this the Auto industry? Yes
Are assembly line workers professional pilots? They are labor nonetheless.
Where is the RLA? Not involved

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So if the ALPA Prez pay were a Million a year would there be more candidates to choose from or less? Today, you'd have more...and it'd be for the money, not the duty.

So you think the someone from the masses should be ALPA Prez for the duty. What about you?

Over 90% of the guys that have gotten hired in the last year at my regional were ALPA volunteers. They didn't advertise they were ALPA volunteers but the recruiters could tell they had an attitude of 'how can I make it better...' 'not what is in it for me...'ALPA recruiters or company HR? And I am all about helping the company out. But the minute the CEO and the members of mahogany row look after their best interests in the form of payouts...I go back to the job description.

Company HR...for company jobs at career carriers like jB, SWA, UAL, DAL etc...

And that is the difference... you need others to behave a certian way before you will. You hold high character traits hostage until you get what you think you want....

That is NOT professional.

You've proven my point... you want it better for YOU. What is in it for YOU. More rest for ME. More benefits for ME, higher pay for ME!WRONG AGAIN! I want it better for ALL pilots. You say it as if rest is a bad thing. I guess I'm just safety conscious. And yes, when bonuses are being handed out like candy at the top, you better believe I am going to have my hand out. Without our hard work, their would be no bonuses at the top.

Your problem is... you don't know how to do both.

That is not serving the profession. That is serving self. It is counter productive and destructive. Tell that to the SWA pilots. I bet if you ask nicely, one of them will walk your resume in.

We are not talking about SWA pilots as a group.. rather the professional attitude....

Serve the profession! The problem is...every pilot, including ALPA pilots are serving themselves. Wrong! Try again.

Right try again....

Anyone can show up on time, perform their duty as expected. Anyone! You want to be recognized for doing what is expected of you? There is nothing progressive about that. Nothing professionial about showing up on time and doing your job... that is what hotel maids do.. not professionals...

too difficult to reply to?

You don't know about PATCO do you?Actually, I do. A college professor of mine was in the military as a controller and he was called in during the strike.

What does that you prove... you knew someone that was there... that doesn't mean you understand the poltics and impact of the event on current day events...

Question.

Is it 1936? Yes
Is this the Auto industry? Yes
Are assembly line workers professional pilots? They are labor nonetheless.
Where is the RLA? Not involved

More insignificant replies.....


Have you stopped to objectively consider why the world doesn't operate the way you think it should....

It the world? You perhaps......... you?


Keep calling for a National Strike....

 

[CopilotDoug]

So you think the someone from the masses should be ALPA Prez for the duty. What about you? Your brethren in Herndon wouldn't approve, Rez. I'd demand results!

Company HR...OK, so they show up to work and attend ALPA functions for their health??? What is their motive for their "how can I help" attitude? Who are they helping? The Airline? The deluded concept known as ALPA?

And that is the difference... you need others to behave a certian way before you will. You hold high character traits hostage until you get what you think you want....
That is NOT professional.
No, but I do believe in accountability. Afterall, it is a standard I am held to. Some airlines are in poor shape these days and it's due to the corporate raiders at the top. These double standards which pilots are held to (massive bonuses at the top, paycuts for labor) are slowly strangling the airlines. Management needs to be held accountable for their actions. What is ALPA doing about that? And don't say they're going to Cap. Hill to reform the bankruptcy laws and ammend the RLA because they're going to be there for a long, long time!

Your problem is... you don't know how to do both. This is not a ME problem, this is a YOU problem. You're the ALPA cheerleader. Clearly, ALPA doesn't know how to either. They've already thrown in the towel on the majority of pilots. Pay increases...It's not ALPA's bag.

We are not talking about SWA pilots as a group.. rather the professional attitude...Whatever attitude the Southwest pilots have, it's working. They're kicking a$$ and the pilots get rewarded.

Anyone can show up on time, perform their duty as expected. Anyone! You want to be recognized for doing what is expected of you? There is nothing progressive about that. Nothing professionial about showing up on time and doing your job... that is what hotel maids do... not professionals... too difficult to reply to?
Sorry, my computer crapped out last night. I don't live to work, Rez. I don't seek out validation in the form of pats on the back. I do realize my compensation is tied to my performance. That's what WE work for, Rez: Compensation. When bonuses are being handed out, there's a surplus of money. ALPA doesn't represent that, you say? That's perfectly fine...please have them step aside. I'll take part in an organization that will.


What does that you prove... you knew someone that was there... that doesn't mean you understand the poltics and impact of the event on current day events...You asked if I didn't know about PATCO. Our professor explained it to us. What's not clear about that? I'll say it again, Yes, I know about PATCO.

More insignificant replies...
Just answering your questions. Apparently if it does not fall within your narrowed field of sight...you cannot comprehend it.

Have you stopped to objectively consider why the world doesn't operate the way you think it should...
So Thomas Eddison should have given up on his quest for artificial light? Think outside the box, Rez. Your problem is that you have Coporate America, the goverment, AND ALPA pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining...and you believe it. Try to think outside the box, unless you like Golden Showers. Maybe you do...to each their own, I guess.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So you think the someone from the masses should be ALPA Prez for the duty. What about you? Your brethren in Herndon wouldn't approve, Rez. I'd demand results!

Remember this is democracy... you'd have to convince others to vote for you... that you bring value to the table....

Company HR...OK, so they show up to work and attend ALPA functions for their health??? What is their motive for their "how can I help" attitude? Who are they helping? The Airline? The deluded concept known as ALPA?

You still don't get it.... have you ever done something for someone without exepcting anything in return? Are you part of GEN Y, offspring of the babyboomers, that has entitlement disease?

And that is the difference... you need others to behave a certian way before you will. You hold high character traits hostage until you get what you think you want....
That is NOT professional.
No, but I do believe in accountability. Afterall, it is a standard I am held to. Some airlines are in poor shape these days and it's due to the corporate raiders at the top.

But yet you continue to work for such an organization that you despise... why?

These double standards which pilots are held to (massive bonuses at the top, paycuts for labor) are slowly strangling the airlines. Management needs to be held accountable for their actions. What is ALPA doing about that?

Whoa!.. here we go again with your expectations... getting mad at ALPA for something you think they should do....

Who said ALPA was obligated or repsonsible for making management accountable?

We fly jets safely. Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines!

Get it out of your head that we are Corp America's watchdog. All unions do is protect thier CBA's within the context of the law. And the law is favored toward CorpAmerica!!

If ALPA should make management accountable what about other unions? the IAM? CWA? AFA? And what if these unions have different ideas of accountability than ALPA. Where is it codified? Is this accountablity that you demand of ALPA written somewhere... or is it just... "stuff ALPA should do"

And don't say they're going to Cap. Hill to reform the bankruptcy laws and ammend the RLA because they're going to be there for a long, long time!

The issue is not 'they' it is 'you'

Your problem is... you don't know how to do both. This is not a ME problem, this is a YOU problem. You're the ALPA cheerleader. Clearly, ALPA doesn't know how to either. They've already thrown in the towel on the majority of pilots. Pay increases...It's not ALPA's bag.

This is cleary your problem... why? cause you are convinced that the world should operate the way you think......

We are not talking about SWA pilots as a group.. rather the professional attitude...Whatever attitude the Southwest pilots have, it's working. They're kicking a$$ and the pilots get rewarded.

Rather I think it is the leadership and culture that the SWA pilots interviewed thier way into.... and good for the pilots if they are successful in interviewing. SWA is a great company.

Anyone can show up on time, perform their duty as expected. Anyone! You want to be recognized for doing what is expected of you? There is nothing progressive about that. Nothing professionial about showing up on time and doing your job... that is what hotel maids do... not professionals... too difficult to reply to?
Sorry, my computer crapped out last night. I don't live to work, Rez. I don't seek out validation in the form of pats on the back.

Again.. that is not what this is about.... you still don't get it.... do you have someone you can talk to? Someone you trust?

I do realize my compensation is tied to my performance. That's what WE work for, Rez: Compensation. When bonuses are being handed out, there's a surplus of money. ALPA doesn't represent that, you say? That's perfectly fine...please have them step aside. I'll take part in an organization that will.

Again.. its seems you have a problem with the way things are... so I'd say that you have a problem...

What does that you prove... you knew someone that was there... that doesn't mean you understand the poltics and impact of the event on current day events...You asked if I didn't know about PATCO. Our professor explained it to us. What's not clear about that? I'll say it again, Yes, I know about PATCO.

Good.. then you know.... but yet you still expect ALPA to commit PATCO suicide... why?

More insignificant replies...
Just answering your questions. Apparently if it does not fall within your narrowed field of sight...you cannot comprehend it.

Again... you want unions to be something it is not... you have the understanding problem....

Have you stopped to objectively consider why the world doesn't operate the way you think it should...
So Thomas Eddison should have given up on his quest for artificial light?

The light didn't exist. try again.

Think outside the box, Rez. Your problem is that you have Coporate America, the goverment, AND ALPA pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining...and you believe it. Try to think outside the box, unless you like Golden Showers. Maybe you do...to each their own, I guess.

So now it gets personal....

even as you read this... things are still not going your way... why?

Why should CorpAmerica, gov't and ALPA all get up tomorrow morning and do things your way? Who are you?

It is not that it is a lack of outside of the box thinking....

It is that others in CorpAmerica and gov't do not care about us as Air Line Pilots. They are too busy taking care of themselves or others who have more money.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

 

[CopilotDoug]

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

Let me guess what you'll say...No? Big surprise.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.