Where will ACA D328J pilots go next?

[GogglesPisano]

In response to a question or two, it's 40%. If 40% of the operation goes, the Company must arrange for the pilots to obtain employment with the aircraft that are sold. The DoJets account for about 20% of our fleet.

If the contract is followed, and the DoJets go, ACA will have to furlough from the bottom of the list (CRJ, DoJet and J41 FO's)

 

[General Lee]

Well, maybe the company getting the Dojos would like to have some experienced Dojo pilots along with the jets.....maybe---maybe not...I hope job losses are minimal if anything like that happens....

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[FlyingSig]

General Lee, please tell me how ACA flying the Dorniers while operating as IA would in anyway hurt your job security? It's not like they're going to put an Airbus on the CVG-DAY round. They are 2 different entities..DLC and Indy Air.

JMO - sorry I'm not the general - but Delta paying a company for a codeshare that subsadises an upstart company that takes revenue away from Delta hurts Delta, Delta pilots, and every employee under the Delta umbrella.

You guys want to start a new airline, great... good luck ... heck, I might even apply there someday if it works out - but in the meantime, start that new airline with your own money.

 

[Nindiri]

But would the little bit of revenue going to ACA hurt Delta more than the cost of operating the Dojets at another DCI carrier?

 

[FlyingSig]

But would the little bit of revenue going to ACA hurt Delta more than the cost of operating the Dojets at another DCI carrier?

I personally think it would be cost neutral to put the airframes at another carrier... I'm shooting from the hip and don't have any supporting documents in front of me, but the aircraft are Delta's once the ACA contract is terminated. I'm sure any costs associated with training/upstart will be structured in how the new carrier gets paid by Delta (not to mention yet another "one time charge" to help with the taxes). Delta's network and fleet is large enough that the rest of DCI - and heaven forbid - mainline - could easily absorb the capacity of 30 or so 32 seat jets without much service interuption. Such costs are defined and mostly fixed.

On the other side of the coin, every dollar that goes out of Delta's pocket and spent getting new passengers at independence is an unaccountable lost revenue for as long as IA is in existance. It's not a "little bit" of revenue unless only a "few" passengers try IA once and then go back to Delta. Again, nothing wrong with competition - it's the American way. But right now Delta dollars are being spent on a product that does not exist and will in no way ever benefit Delta. Once IA starts operating - using Delta dollars to market and attact new customers, some of which will probably be Delta customers - will cause far more damage over the long run if IA is successful. AirTran is a perfect example of why Delta should not help IA get started. You think the short term profit of selling DC-9's outweighed the lost revenue in the ATL market?

Again, my remarks at not a knock at the new airline or it's concept. I just beleive anyone with a vested interest in the long term health of Delta should agree that the ACA contract should be terminated in accordance with the Delta Pilot's working agreement once greater then 70 seat aircraft are put into service.

 

[House_X]

JMO - sorry I'm not the general - but Delta paying a company for a codeshare that subsadises an upstart company that takes revenue away from Delta hurts Delta, Delta pilots, and every employee under the Delta umbrella.

You guys want to start a new airline, great... good luck ... heck, I might even apply there someday if it works out - but in the meantime, start that new airline with your own money.

I agree, there is no way Delta will fund a competitor. I've been hearing from our side that we cannot hurt Delta by starting an LLC and flying Delta Connection at the same time. I guess they don't have Economics 101 at "Riddle". I think many are in denial and don't want to fathom the Dorniers being yanked from under us.

 

[Heavy Set]

I think General's point is that Delta won't fund a potential direct competitor... I don't know many non-airline companies that fund potential direct competitors either...

 

[SaladShooter]

How the end game is going to be played is anyones guess. Who knows if DALPA will force DAL to eat the Do's. That possibility is as good as ACA not getting 3 straight months of 95.5 completion factor off the FRJ's and DAL forcing ACA to eat the airplanes. The only thing I do know is that somebody is going to be stuck with those airplanes and I sure hope beyond all hope that it is not ACA, at least not in the near future. That would be a blood bath and would not be good for the start of I Air.

 

[TechRep]

ACA/Midwest Express Fleet Transfer (rumo

My inside sources within ACA/Midwest Express tell me that all Delta Connection Dornier 328JETS operated by ACA will be sold to Midwest Express. Midwest Express will assume the lease and maintenance contracts and agree in interest to assume control of all ACA 328JET operated aircraft. Pratt & Whitney has assured Midwest Express, before the filling, that the P&W306B, 1st and 2nd stage turbine blade erosion abnormality will be addressed during engine overhaul.

Reduced Power Take Off has also been tentatively approved by AvCraft, which will further improve the reliability of the turbine blades. If I were an ACA Delta Connection 328JET Crewmember I would begin to ask questions.

TechRep

 

[General Lee]

There you go....

 

[JTrain]

Here is my completely unofficial projection of how the D328J situation will play out at ACA. Note I'm nobody special, just your average FRJ line stiff, possibly a bit more in tune with the DoJets than most but not all (me=regional airline news/internet junkie), and hopefully I won't stick my foot in my mouth like that jr. CRJ CA on the ALPA website.....

I project that Comair will take over operation of the D328Js. When is anybody's guess, but I'm thinking sooner rather than later (within a year). Now, here's where it gets interesting. A lot of our FRJ guys are concerned that our union will somehow short us and try to get us to disappear with the FRJs; I don't believe any of that hype. Personally what I think will happen.........ACA won't be able to accomodate all ~350-400 of us coming back at once, and Comair won't be able to spool up and train enough crews to staff the airplane at once. We may be fenced in the airplane for a period of time, maybe a year or more, with an allowance made for X amount of pilots per month to transition back to Independence Air. This would also allow Comair time to train their own on the FRJs.

Pilots will be given the option of staying with ACA or staying with Comair; if you had asked me in the summer what I would do were I offered DOH at Comair, back then I would've likely said Comair, but now, I'm quite impressed with the whole Indy Air prep/planning and am willing to give it a shot. Some ACAers who've settled in Cincinnati may choose to stay with Comair. There will likely be a considerable amount of withholding pay involved to compensate those in the ACA FRJ community who could hold Airbus CA/FO positions but will be locked in the FRJ.
It will be painful - there are a lot of FRJ pilots who commute from IAD and are dying to get back there and it will suck to not be at FLYI from the get-go. However we will be given the opportunity to get back there within a reasonable timeframe.

Again, this is just my completely unofficial wild guess opinion - don't flame me too much - and I'd appreciate other ACA or other perspectives on the issues.

JTrain

 

[TechRep]

I suggest you apply at Midwest Express pronto.

TechRep

 

[w4mch]

J Train,

Your time line is plausable, but listen to TechRep as to where the Do-Do's are headed (not that I know anything, but it appears he does).

Gen Lee is also right, DL will never allow a potential competitor to also be a feeder, regardless of the DLALPA scope issues over there.

It also doesn't make sence for IA to piss off more than one big legacy carrier coming out of the gate. The fact that we have put rights to force DL to eat the planes just means that we have leverage in whatever talks may transpire. A win-win for ACA & DL is the best outcome, and just maybe there will be pilot seats for the affected drivers.

Having said that, for any MEC to allow furlough out of seniority is political suicide. That ain't gonna happen, but having "assigned pilots" has occured before in ACA's history any may not be a bad deal if the other option is 300 or so off the bottom.

 

[chperplt]

I think the Dojets are going by-by.. Regarldless who eventually gets the ACA flying on the connection side, the Dojets won't have a part in it.

DAL sells the airplanes at a loss in trade of CRJs. ASA or Comair maintains an all CRJ fleet and DAL gets a nice tax write-off for the loss.

 

[JTrain]

w4mch & TechRep,

Both you guys bring have good points, however I have a hard time seeing how Skyway could digest our 33 Dorniers. They have what - 15 FRJs tops right now - you're asking them to triple their fleet overnight - thats a lot to expect! They may seem like a logical destination for the FRJs - however just because they are one of the few U.S. operations of the D328J doesn't meant they CAN instantly take over our DCI operation. If you're going to throw Skyways' name out there, I'll retort by saying why not Great Plains? Heck, why not have the Philip Morris/Altria Corporate Flight Dept take over our DCI operation, since they operate a D328J, I'm sure they could do it also . Or maybe even Hainan Airlines is lurking in the background somewhere, waiting to penetrate the U.S. regional airline market.....

IMHO Comair is still a much more logical destination for the FRJs. Although -disclaimer- I tend to not believe Comair folks who claim they have instructors who've already been typed in D328J/have pilots in tng pipeline for FRJ already/have been issue FRJ publications/are anticipating being jr. manned to D328J, etc....


Enjoying this discussion,

JTrain