When you know aircaft and base for Horizon

[superbeechpilot]

Hey,

If you do get a class at Horizon when do they tell you what aircraft and base you have? Do you get to choose or give a preference?

Thanks

 

[Icelandair]

They put you in whatever aircraft they need people. You find out where you are based during ground school sometime, again where they need you. You can always bid to switch bases, but trying to switch a/c as an fo is dammn near impossible.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Hey,

If you do get a class at Horizon when do they tell you what aircraft and base you have? Do you get to choose or give a preference?

Thanks

They generally tell you what a/c when you are offered the class. Then, as was posted, you find out about 1-2 weeks into ground exactly which base. However, there isn't much mystery.

200 SEA to start most likely, probably wouldn't take long to get PDX
400 PDX only base.
CRJ DEN to start; a few recent new hires wanted PDX, so it might take a little while to get PDX.

 

[KCPilot]

Do they have the CRJ at SEA or just the 200?

 

[ReverseSensing]

Do they have the CRJ at SEA or just the 200?

Just the 200.

 

[superbeechpilot]

Thanks for the info!

 

[WestSide]

If I'm already flying the RJ do you think that they'd put me on the RJ or is that not taken into consideration? How long is training and do/what you get paid? Is all training at PDX?

 

[DoubleDown]

All the ground training is done at PDX, and the sim is done in Seattle. They pay you 16 hours per week at the base pay which I believe is around $30 per hour. The hotel is free, but double occupancy. They have a great breakfast by the way.
There is no ryhme or reason as to what plane they put you in, however, you would probably have a good shot at the RJ. The 400 is fun to fly, but our pilot group isn't too hung up on equipment. We all get paid the same, however, we would all probably agree the 200 isn't much fun in the summer. You sweat like crazy, and the legs aren't long enough to really cool down.

 

[WestSide]

Is it mandatory that you stay in the hotel, or are you allowed to stay at home with your family if you live in PDX? My current airline required that you stay in the hotel. Any idea around how much you typically take home per month...with per diem and overblock...etc? Is the pilot group happy with Teamsters? Thanks for all of the info...just trying to find out everyithing before I decide to make the switch.

 

[Yank McCobb]

They don't require you to stay in the hotel, either in PDX during ground training or SEA for sim, as far as I know.

To figure out how much you "take home"...take the guarantee and multiply it by the lowest hourly rate, minus out your typical taxes and add in at best $300 for per diem. "Overblock"?? I suggest you talk to someone about this great contract they work under. It is the most ridiculous document I have ever heard of in 30 years of airline flying.

Happy with the Teamsters? See how happy you are after you read the contract. Ask some simple questions such as "why do you get paid -200 rate even though you are a 3rd year Q400 or CRJ pilot?" Ask "why do I not get to bid on my initial domicile or aircraft assignment and if I want to bid out of this assignment...which I can only do after 2 years and then only to a "higher paying" airframe, why do I have to start over at the bottom of THAT payscale?" Ask, "why does any adjustment to my monthly pay credits come off of the guarantee instead of the line value?" Ask "how is it possible to change the schedules after the bid lines have come out and the bidding closed so that now the trips that are awarded are NOT what you bid, and why is my only pay protection in this case the minimum guarantee instead of my original line value?"

There are tons more you could ask. Go ahead, think of some. Then ask the Teamsters (or the Horizon pilot representatives of such).

 

[Sioux115]

Im not saying our CBA is perferct, but at my experience level (regionals)I've flown a couple of other places and one of which is the best regional in alot of peoples eyes and I think it is better than the other two places. As for teamsters, it is our first contract but also was completed just before 9/11 so we'll see what happens next year when the contract expires.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I figured the "first contract" excuse would come up, I just didn't think it would be in the very first post.

Now watch how many more will come out in defense of this POS. I guess when you come straight from being a CFI anything would look good. No wonder they like to keep that UND pipeline open.

 

[Sioux115]

I guess you missed the part of the post saying that I had flown at couple of other places at the regional level before horizon. And compared to the other places the majority of this POS as you call it is better.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I guess you missed the part of the post saying that I had flown at couple of other places at the regional level before horizon.

I didn't miss that at all and when I said "you" I wasn't talking about YOU personally. I guess you missed that I didn't quote your post (or anyone else's). I simply offered my opinions and observations.

How easily everyone on this board gets offended and how everyone thinks it's all about THEM.

 

[DoubleDown]

They don't require you to stay in the hotel, either in PDX during ground training or SEA for sim, as far as I know.

To figure out how much you "take home"...take the guarantee and multiply it by the lowest hourly rate, minus out your typical taxes and add in at best $300 for per diem. "Overblock"?? I suggest you talk to someone about this great contract they work under. It is the most ridiculous document I have ever heard of in 30 years of airline flying.

Happy with the Teamsters? See how happy you are after you read the contract. Ask some simple questions such as "why do you get paid -200 rate even though you are a 3rd year Q400 or CRJ pilot?" Ask "why do I not get to bid on my initial domicile or aircraft assignment and if I want to bid out of this assignment...which I can only do after 2 years and then only to a "higher paying" airframe, why do I have to start over at the bottom of THAT payscale?" Ask, "why does any adjustment to my monthly pay credits come off of the guarantee instead of the line value?" Ask "how is it possible to change the schedules after the bid lines have come out and the bidding closed so that now the trips that are awarded are NOT what you bid, and why is my only pay protection in this case the minimum guarantee instead of my original line value?"

There are tons more you could ask. Go ahead, think of some. Then ask the Teamsters (or the Horizon pilot representatives of such).

Keep in mind that you don't see too many threads about horizon on this site, and you certainly don't see any of our pilots posting this garbage. Overall, its a pretty happy work with some old gray dogs who have been around the block. Our union knows how to handle our management. Many don't know this, but we were approached with concessions, with the promise of growth before the Frontier deal and we told them to shove it up thier @ss. They got the deal anyway.

 

[Yank McCobb]

So are you trying to say that ANY of that information I posted is inaccurate? That those are NOT provisions of your current CBA?

If so, you are out and out LYING. Or you are just too stupid to know the difference.

I have an idea. Ask to be paid Q400 pay since you are flying that aircraft. Or if you have reached that "magic" company number where you actually qualify to be paid for the aircraft you fly, then bid over to the CRJ. I mean, they are putting new hires in it. When you get there, ask for 4th or 5th year (or whatever year you are) pay. When they tell you no, tell them to "shove it up their @ss" then see how much help your union will be getting YOUR @ss out of the crack it will be in.

 

[Buschpilot]

Yank McCobb says:

Blah blah blah blah

I thought you retired? I sure as hell wouldn't be hangin around here if I were retired.

 

[turbodriver]

Keep in mind that you don't see too many threads about horizon on this site, and you certainly don't see any of our pilots posting this garbage. Overall, its a pretty happy work with some old gray dogs who have been around the block. Our union knows how to handle our management. Many don't know this, but we were approached with concessions, with the promise of growth before the Frontier deal and we told them to shove it up thier @ss. They got the deal anyway.

You don't want to know how pissed I would be if we had taken those concessions for the promise of "growth" and they still ended up reducing PDX flying to ship it out to DEN when it was all said and done.

Yank, the Teamsters aren't perfect like your holy grail that is called ALPA.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Yank:

You are a retired Southwest pilot, right?

Not flamebait, but what's your interest in Horizon? I never see you post about anyone else's contract, (maybe I missed it) or for the non-union carriers, work rules.

I don't understand the QX contract as well as you do, because I haven't been in the industry as long as you have. I understand your objections to the current contract, but I wonder if you were (or are) well-acquainted with the circumstances at the time of its ratification.

My sense is that some aspects of compensation and work rules in the contract are pretty good. Hourly rates are very good (industry-leading?) for new hires, even RJ new-hires. Per diem is good. Rigs seem decent. What's your perspective? Does the contract have any redeeming qualities?

Are all those 4-, 5-, and 6-year FO's the dimmest bulbs in the industry? Or is there some other quality about Horizon keeping folks there?

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Yank:

You are a retired Southwest pilot, right?

N

I dunno,

He sounds like management to me.

Hey Spike!

 

[Icelandair]

QX needs 400's to be based in SEA so 200 guys have something to look forward to upgrading too without being forced to commute.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I dunno,

He sounds like management to me.

Hey Spike!

If I were management, I would be shouting with joy over your contract. Each and every provision I read favors them. What did you guys get in return? It sure seems that these things I mentioned were all written to benefit the company and not the pilots.

You all are correct. I do not know the circumstances that were present when the contract was signed. My interest came when one of my best and oldest friend's son started flying for Horizon earlier this year. Just as a passing interest, I asked about the contract. After I got a chance to read it and ask a few questions, I couldn't believe it. In all my career, I have not seen anything like it. My pupose here for bringing it up was to try and get a feel of what other Horizon pilots thought about it. I am still amazed (but maybe not all that surprised, given the background of many of them) how many pilots go to the mat defending it. I'm not attacking anyone personally, and I'm not really attacking where you work. I am just dumbfounded that anyone could not (or would not) see how this contract, in virtually every section, is heavily weighted to favor the company. And those parts that are not heavily favoring the company are heavily favoring the very senior guys who will never leave (can't blame them too much for taking care of themselves, however.) I also was hoping for some meaningful dialoge about it, but I guess I came on too strong for that. I was just so amazed by it that I was a bit over the top in my postings.

However, I made my point and said my piece. I'll move on from the subject of the Horizon contract. Something I should have just left alone in hindsight. It's you guys' contract and you guys have to live with it on a daily basis. You either accept how things are or work to change them. Good luck with all of it.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Posted by Yank:

After I got a chance to read it and ask a few questions, I couldn't believe it. In all my career, I have not seen anything like it. My pupose here for bringing it up was to try and get a feel of what other Horizon pilots thought about it.

Well since you put it that way here are my 2 cents.

I don't think it's a bad FIRST contract. I will agree with you that 200 Captains got screwed, but from my understanding you have to look at the time it was signed. Everyone and their grandma (mine included) were bailing out for Delta, United, UPS, etc. Get your turbine PIC and bail. So pay for 200 skippers reflects that. I got a huge pay raise as an FO. Under the old system, they practically qualified for food stamps (an exaggeration perhaps, but they were dang close). Compared with Skywest, Trans States , Mesaba, et al. I'd say we have a good contract considering how we've been classified (I hate to say it...regional airline).

Do I have gripes about the contract? You betcha. The rigs have hosed us. We (in the 400) fly 4 day trips crammed into 3 days. I'd much rather work hard for 3 days and then get 4 off. They're nice when you get a trip cancellation in the middle of your day (unless it's a block trip)
AV days...don't get me started, and of course my very favorite pet peeve. Not being able to show in other than domicile. If they fixed that, ...well, I'll save that for another thread. The contract does favor the senior, but it becomes amenable in a year...so hopefully we'll do better. So there you go.

Oh and sorry about the management crack.

 

[chickenwolf]

The pay is somewhat enticing compared to many other regionals, but going back to the bottom of the barrel if you switch equipment is F___ed! I guess it would be best to stay in your equipment until you can take a captain spot.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

So are you trying to say that ANY of that information I posted is inaccurate? That those are NOT provisions of your current CBA?

If so, you are out and out LYING. Or you are just too stupid to know the difference.

I have an idea. Ask to be paid Q400 pay since you are flying that aircraft. Or if you have reached that "magic" company number where you actually qualify to be paid for the aircraft you fly, then bid over to the CRJ. I mean, they are putting new hires in it. When you get there, ask for 4th or 5th year (or whatever year you are) pay. When they tell you no, tell them to "shove it up their @ss" then see how much help your union will be getting YOUR @ss out of the crack it will be in.

I posted this earlier in another thread.

I think Yank is right.

The contract should not have included this stuff about the FO's being stuck in the seat they get hired into. This contract was written for a growth oriented company, which we all know Horizon is NOT! I don't think Yank is saying anything other than, no other contract I know of incluldes such non-sense. The pilots voted it in so there it is. The Management slipped that one by!

Another thing, what is wrong with an FO actually flying the airframe that his senority will hold and getting paid for it? DEN FO 1.5yr, flying an RJ with 15-17 days off, 2-4 legs a day. They are loving life as a very cool RJ pilot . SEA FO flying a Q-200 4-5yrs with 13-14 days off, 6-8 legs a day . They might wish to be that guy in DEN to have the life style of a senior FO along with the pay.

 

[tomdav]

Contract

The only good thing about the contract was that it was voted in right before Sep 11. It went effective Sep 13th 2001. I think most people knew that it had major defects but were tired of waiting and figured they would be on the first boat out to UA, NW, DL. So if you where hired post contract you can thank your fellow Fo's at the time for their part in voting in the current "permanent seat lock". Many people agree the current payscale is very good but failed to notice that under our old agreement that if you are doing 400hrs time away from base you took a pay cut for the first few years. I could go on and on but whats the point. This time around I'm sure EVERYONE will be taking this contract business serious and not give in for the quick buck(retro pay offered at the last minute) at the expense of quality of life. One more thing this is our contract not the Teamsters. We pay them large gobs of cash to be represeted but all of the work is done by our own people. I think we would be better served by having our own in house union but thats another can of worms.

Tom Davies

 

[QCappy]

For all you Horizon guys that are posting on this message board, I would heavily encourage you to sign up and participate on the Horizon Teamsters message board if you don't already. It is always nice to have these discusions, and on that forum you are talking to people you work with and not to the public. While I feel this is a great board as well, I know some of you on here do not participate in the Teamsters message board, and it would be great if you did. Look in the crew rooms on the wall for more info or go to http://www.ibt747.org/ and sign up.


....sorry for the plug.