When you know aircaft and base for Horizon

[Icelandair]

QX needs 400's to be based in SEA so 200 guys have something to look forward to upgrading too without being forced to commute.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I dunno,

He sounds like management to me.

Hey Spike!

If I were management, I would be shouting with joy over your contract. Each and every provision I read favors them. What did you guys get in return? It sure seems that these things I mentioned were all written to benefit the company and not the pilots.

You all are correct. I do not know the circumstances that were present when the contract was signed. My interest came when one of my best and oldest friend's son started flying for Horizon earlier this year. Just as a passing interest, I asked about the contract. After I got a chance to read it and ask a few questions, I couldn't believe it. In all my career, I have not seen anything like it. My pupose here for bringing it up was to try and get a feel of what other Horizon pilots thought about it. I am still amazed (but maybe not all that surprised, given the background of many of them) how many pilots go to the mat defending it. I'm not attacking anyone personally, and I'm not really attacking where you work. I am just dumbfounded that anyone could not (or would not) see how this contract, in virtually every section, is heavily weighted to favor the company. And those parts that are not heavily favoring the company are heavily favoring the very senior guys who will never leave (can't blame them too much for taking care of themselves, however.) I also was hoping for some meaningful dialoge about it, but I guess I came on too strong for that. I was just so amazed by it that I was a bit over the top in my postings.

However, I made my point and said my piece. I'll move on from the subject of the Horizon contract. Something I should have just left alone in hindsight. It's you guys' contract and you guys have to live with it on a daily basis. You either accept how things are or work to change them. Good luck with all of it.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Posted by Yank:

After I got a chance to read it and ask a few questions, I couldn't believe it. In all my career, I have not seen anything like it. My pupose here for bringing it up was to try and get a feel of what other Horizon pilots thought about it.

Well since you put it that way here are my 2 cents.

I don't think it's a bad FIRST contract. I will agree with you that 200 Captains got screwed, but from my understanding you have to look at the time it was signed. Everyone and their grandma (mine included) were bailing out for Delta, United, UPS, etc. Get your turbine PIC and bail. So pay for 200 skippers reflects that. I got a huge pay raise as an FO. Under the old system, they practically qualified for food stamps (an exaggeration perhaps, but they were dang close). Compared with Skywest, Trans States , Mesaba, et al. I'd say we have a good contract considering how we've been classified (I hate to say it...regional airline).

Do I have gripes about the contract? You betcha. The rigs have hosed us. We (in the 400) fly 4 day trips crammed into 3 days. I'd much rather work hard for 3 days and then get 4 off. They're nice when you get a trip cancellation in the middle of your day (unless it's a block trip)
AV days...don't get me started, and of course my very favorite pet peeve. Not being able to show in other than domicile. If they fixed that, ...well, I'll save that for another thread. The contract does favor the senior, but it becomes amenable in a year...so hopefully we'll do better. So there you go.

Oh and sorry about the management crack.

 

[chickenwolf]

The pay is somewhat enticing compared to many other regionals, but going back to the bottom of the barrel if you switch equipment is F___ed! I guess it would be best to stay in your equipment until you can take a captain spot.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

So are you trying to say that ANY of that information I posted is inaccurate? That those are NOT provisions of your current CBA?

If so, you are out and out LYING. Or you are just too stupid to know the difference.

I have an idea. Ask to be paid Q400 pay since you are flying that aircraft. Or if you have reached that "magic" company number where you actually qualify to be paid for the aircraft you fly, then bid over to the CRJ. I mean, they are putting new hires in it. When you get there, ask for 4th or 5th year (or whatever year you are) pay. When they tell you no, tell them to "shove it up their @ss" then see how much help your union will be getting YOUR @ss out of the crack it will be in.

I posted this earlier in another thread.

I think Yank is right.

The contract should not have included this stuff about the FO's being stuck in the seat they get hired into. This contract was written for a growth oriented company, which we all know Horizon is NOT! I don't think Yank is saying anything other than, no other contract I know of incluldes such non-sense. The pilots voted it in so there it is. The Management slipped that one by!

Another thing, what is wrong with an FO actually flying the airframe that his senority will hold and getting paid for it? DEN FO 1.5yr, flying an RJ with 15-17 days off, 2-4 legs a day. They are loving life as a very cool RJ pilot . SEA FO flying a Q-200 4-5yrs with 13-14 days off, 6-8 legs a day . They might wish to be that guy in DEN to have the life style of a senior FO along with the pay.

 

[tomdav]

Contract

The only good thing about the contract was that it was voted in right before Sep 11. It went effective Sep 13th 2001. I think most people knew that it had major defects but were tired of waiting and figured they would be on the first boat out to UA, NW, DL. So if you where hired post contract you can thank your fellow Fo's at the time for their part in voting in the current "permanent seat lock". Many people agree the current payscale is very good but failed to notice that under our old agreement that if you are doing 400hrs time away from base you took a pay cut for the first few years. I could go on and on but whats the point. This time around I'm sure EVERYONE will be taking this contract business serious and not give in for the quick buck(retro pay offered at the last minute) at the expense of quality of life. One more thing this is our contract not the Teamsters. We pay them large gobs of cash to be represeted but all of the work is done by our own people. I think we would be better served by having our own in house union but thats another can of worms.

Tom Davies

 

[QCappy]

For all you Horizon guys that are posting on this message board, I would heavily encourage you to sign up and participate on the Horizon Teamsters message board if you don't already. It is always nice to have these discusions, and on that forum you are talking to people you work with and not to the public. While I feel this is a great board as well, I know some of you on here do not participate in the Teamsters message board, and it would be great if you did. Look in the crew rooms on the wall for more info or go to http://www.ibt747.org/ and sign up.


....sorry for the plug.