When is US Air West going to sue ALPA?

[AVI8V1]

trainer8,

I'm with you on that. So long to this thread.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Your sarcasm has been noted. I can tell that there are alot more vocal AWA pilots on this board. So let me ask you guys the definition of a "windfall". If you project the integration out 7 years or so (with AAA retiring 4 pilots for every 1 from AWA), CLOSE TO EVERY WIDEBODY CAPTAIN SPOT will be occupied by an AMERICA WEST PILOT if they bid for it. You guys didn't have any widebodies or int'l presence pre merger. I can understand why you are so fiercely defending the arbitration.

Reality is there are a lot of East pilots who are fed up and they want to have a way to make their voices heard. They don't care about your numbers or clever sarcasm; they don't care that AWA was very competitive in 2003, they could not care less that you say "binding is binding" like a child who is afraid to come out from behind Daddy Nicolau- what they do care about is getting these groups intergrated in a more palatable and balanced fashion.

And what would that be?


Phxflyr

 

[PHXFLYR]

You are wasting your time, here. There will be no concensus or understanding between the the pilot groups. They are philisophically and ideologically opposite regarding the arbitration.

The most unfortunate casualty of this arbitration award is the loss of professionalism between airmen demonstrated on this board and that has been carried into the cockpit and cabin on both carriers.

Fortunately, for the friends I have who fly for US Airways West, some who were former APL blokes, we maintain a friendship and professional attitude, while at the same time, disagreeing on the merits of the Award. It can be done.

It's time to move on.

T8

For someone who backed into their job,you seem to have a lot to say about how the award went down,don't you?

PHXFLYR

 

[cactusboy53]

The "no windfall" clause is what the East is arguing was violated. ..... The East argues that the pilots on the West received such a windfall, therefore the arbitrator didn't comply with ALPA merger policy.

So says the East. Your perception is your perception. I would be willing to bet you have not read / researched the arbitration transcripts, have you?

Meanwhile....the windfall continues:
Upgrades.......up until recently, all EAST.
Hiring (or re-hiring).....all EAST.
New Aircraft.............all EAST.
New City Annoucements.......all EAST.

Again, what part of BINDING ARBITRATION is that difficult to understand??

 

[ultrarunner]

Reality is there are a lot of East pilots who are fed up and they want to have a way to make their voices heard....

...what they do care about is getting these groups intergrated in a more palatable and balanced fashion.

If that was the case then, why did it go to binding arbitration...you can't have it both ways, right??

 

[Fast43]

Your sarcasm has been noted. I can tell that there are alot more vocal AWA pilots on this board. So let me ask you guys the definition of a "windfall". If you project the integration out 7 years or so (with AAA retiring 4 pilots for every 1 from AWA), CLOSE TO EVERY WIDEBODY CAPTAIN SPOT will be occupied by an AMERICA WEST PILOT if they bid for it. You guys didn't have any widebodies or int'l presence pre merger. I can understand why you are so fiercely defending the arbitration.

Reality is there are a lot of East pilots who are fed up and they want to have a way to make their voices heard. They don't care about your numbers or clever sarcasm; they don't care that AWA was very competitive in 2003, they could not care less that you say "binding is binding" like a child who is afraid to come out from behind Daddy Nicolau- what they do care about is getting these groups intergrated in a more palatable and balanced fashion.

Could it be that the 4 years of widebody fence that the Nic set up, is a windfall in and of itself. Since AAA was nearing the end of its path to Liquidation how can they claim with a straight face that they would have had widebodies to fly beyond June or July of 2005. Clearly that is they way Nic saw it, as he stated that the AAA pilots benefited much more from this merger than their West counterparts.

Clearly you need to read the transcripts of the Arbitration. I'm sure you will find it eye opening as would the East guys.

Too bad their MEC decided that they should not have access to them.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Captain that I used to fly with who was never furloughed and was hired in 1986 is junior to a guy hired in late 2000.

When he was doing his first IOE with USAir the guy now senior to him was in the 10th grade.

No matter how you look at it, something is not right about that.

 

[get2flyin]

Captain that I used to fly with who was never furloughed and was hired in 1986 is junior to a guy hired in late 2000.

When he was doing his first IOE with USAir the guy now senior to him was in the 10th grade.

No matter how you look at it, something is not right about that.

You're mixing age with seniority. For the basis of integration, age is irrelevant. I think the only time age should be the basis for determining seniority is within a new-hire class. When I hired on, the oldest was 46 and the youngest was 26. After the first 5 minutes of day one, age was no longer an issue.

If it was an issue, why didn't USAir just ask Nic. for integration by age and not DOH? Woulda made the senior Westies happy. That way they wouldn't have gotten stuck behind the 500+ golden boys on top of the list...

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You're mixing age with seniority. For the basis of integration, age is irrelevant. I think the only time age should be the basis for determining seniority is within a new-hire class. When I hired on, the oldest was 46 and the youngest was 26. After the first 5 minutes of day one, age was no longer an issue.

If it was an issue, why didn't USAir just ask Nic. for integration by age and not DOH? Woulda made the senior Westies happy. That way they wouldn't have gotten stuck behind the 500+ golden boys on top of the list...

I never mentioned age, except if you inferred the guys age through the fact that he was in the 10th grade.

Talking time in service here. 21 years vs 7. The fact that the guy now senior to him was not old enough to even hold a Pvt. pilot cert when my friend was flying a 737 for USAir just amplifies the problems with this award.

 

[TWA Dude]

No matter how you look at it, something is not right about that.

I know what's not right about it: you're injecting emotion into what must be a non-emotional process. Nicolau used rational logic in evaluating the career expectations of both sides and clearly explained his reasoning. But I'll tell you what, if the USAir guys had gotten what they wanted (DOH/LOH) the result would've been approximately 2/3 of the AWA list stapled. Tell me what's "right" about that?