flightmahtman4n
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Whats up with SkyWest?
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ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
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It's 150 (or thereabout) guys coming from UAL.....................if they take the offer. They can turn it down, but it counts towards the the required quota. SGU is probably going to front load this in order to get the requirement out of the way so as to not hold up the -70 orders.
That is all......................
AF
That is all......................
AF
What Artic said is true. The key word is "offer" So if a furlough is offered a job and for whatever reason, then thats one person less that takes the job and one person closer to hiring off the street. I think some furloughed employees may decide to collect unemployment or do something else so who knows how many actual furloughs we'll take.
Hang in there!
Hang in there!
Riddle momma
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ARGH!
I'm dying here waiting to hear good news from the Skywest brothers and sisters! Are the internal recommendations still getting interviews? (Not that I should be so lucky)
Still, 150 seems like a low number...
I guess another year of instructing
What are some of the competitive mins for off the street? I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I just want to hear it one more time
I'm dying here waiting to hear good news from the Skywest brothers and sisters! Are the internal recommendations still getting interviews? (Not that I should be so lucky)
Still, 150 seems like a low number...
I guess another year of instructing
What are some of the competitive mins for off the street? I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I just want to hear it one more time
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
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I think they were looking at people with around 1500 TT and a couple of hundred multi, but I do believe that after interviews on the 11th and one more later this month no new interviews are being scheduled.
Also, the interview information link on SkyWestPilot.com has been totally removed...
Also, the interview information link on SkyWestPilot.com has been totally removed...
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
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Also see the thread I started on the Majors board asking how many would be taking up offers at SkyWest/Mesa.
Seems the jobs are going pretty junior so maybe the 150 job OFFERS won't be much of a factor.
That many only need to be offered jobs, if they don't accept, our obligation to UAL/UALPA is satisfied, and our brothers/sisters from the pool get their jobs...
Seems the jobs are going pretty junior so maybe the 150 job OFFERS won't be much of a factor.
That many only need to be offered jobs, if they don't accept, our obligation to UAL/UALPA is satisfied, and our brothers/sisters from the pool get their jobs...
I think you guys may be oversimplifying the situation. Its not just 150 OFFERS, its a 150 initial openings, if it takes 800 guys to reach the 150 takers then that's what it will take. Skywest doesn't have to maintain the number at 150, but at least that many will have to ACCEPT a job OFFER in order to satisfy the agreement.
Right now some people are trying to paint a rosy picture to calm the troops, but it is not as simple as Rogue5 indicates.
Right now some people are trying to paint a rosy picture to calm the troops, but it is not as simple as Rogue5 indicates.
ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
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SSDD said:
From the MOU, "2. A Participating Feeder Carrier shall make offers for new hire positions to Eligible Furloughed Pilots in a number equal to five (5) times the number of Qualifying Aircraft to be operated and on terms described herein. Of these five (5) offers, at least three (3) will be offers for new hire positions in Small Jet aircraft. Such new hire position offers need not be in Qualifying Aircraft. Once such offers have been made, even if the Participating Feeder Carrier has not been provided with a sufficient number of Eligible Furloughed Pilots to fill the new hire positions, the Participating Feeder Carrier's obligation to make offers for the purpose of operating Qualifying Aircraft under the terms of this letter shall be satisfied."
Sounds like we offer 150 guys jobs and they are free to accept or reject. Beyond that, we fulfilled our obligation.
AF
After reading the agreement, and seeing how it works on the UAL MEC site, I can shed a bit of light here.
They way it is set up, a furloughee has to fill out a form that specifies which carrier they would like to participate in the agreement with, or not at all. If a form is not filled out, the furloughee is skipped over in seniority order.
What that means then, is that unless you have expressed interest in flying for Skywest or Mesa or both, you will not even be considered in the program.
So an offer won't even be given to a furloughee unless they want it.
The last round of offers stopped at a furlough date of July, so it seems there is quite a bit of interest in the program for Skywest. The last round for Mesa went all the way back to October 2002, so there is a bit more room there.
Let me know if I can clarify any questions you have.
Randy
They way it is set up, a furloughee has to fill out a form that specifies which carrier they would like to participate in the agreement with, or not at all. If a form is not filled out, the furloughee is skipped over in seniority order.
What that means then, is that unless you have expressed interest in flying for Skywest or Mesa or both, you will not even be considered in the program.
So an offer won't even be given to a furloughee unless they want it.
The last round of offers stopped at a furlough date of July, so it seems there is quite a bit of interest in the program for Skywest. The last round for Mesa went all the way back to October 2002, so there is a bit more room there.
Let me know if I can clarify any questions you have.
Randy
ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
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Why the heck would the furloughs at United want to come to Skywest. The pay is CRAP, even second year FO pay sucks. I fly with several Jet FOs that are trying to find other jobs because they can't pay the bills, and they can hold fairly good lines. You'll be on reserve and the reserve rules NEED A LOT of work, trust me, I've done that reserve thing here and I wouldn't wish it upon an enemy. And to top it off, we get paid the same for 50-99 seats.
I'm not sure, but I've been told that United furloughs get paid more on unemployment than our FOs get paid here.
Sorry to get so negative. I just can't figure it out.
I'm not sure, but I've been told that United furloughs get paid more on unemployment than our FOs get paid here.
Sorry to get so negative. I just can't figure it out.
GuppyPuppy
Living the Dream
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
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Bako Cap said:
Let's see if I remember.....
Unemployment in CA pays, I think, $370/wk.
Newhire F/O gets $19.02/hr with a 75hr/month guarantee.
19.02 x 75 = $1426.50/month x 12 = $17,118/yr guarantee.
17,118/52 = 329.19/wk.
If a newhire goes to the jet, he/she can figure not getting paid for the first two months. That would make their first year guarantee at $14,265. Divide that by 52 and you get an average weekly guarantee of $274.33.
Consider a newhire at In and Out Burger who works full time and makes $9.00/hour. At 40 hours per week this worker will make $18,270 his first year or $360/wk.
A guy in class told me that if I had started out at McDonalds ten years ago and went through their management training program that I would have made more money than I have made flying for the last 10 years.
It's a sickness. Somebody find a cure.
GP
Sometimes it's not all about the money.
The fact is, I am doing pretty well at a business I started since I've been furloughed, but you know what - I miss flying!!
Flying is one of those things done for love, not money.
Actually, medical for the furloughed guys are covered by Cobra and the Union for the first year or so, so it would definitely be a pay cut to go to work for another airline.
Bako Cap, to answer your question, I would take the job to be flying an airplane.
Randy
The fact is, I am doing pretty well at a business I started since I've been furloughed, but you know what - I miss flying!!
Flying is one of those things done for love, not money.
Actually, medical for the furloughed guys are covered by Cobra and the Union for the first year or so, so it would definitely be a pay cut to go to work for another airline.
Bako Cap, to answer your question, I would take the job to be flying an airplane.
Randy
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
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Feel free to not work here should you be so inclined:
Bitter furloughs bent out of shape by the way they have been treated by their former employers then handed a job vs. intervieved newhires (regardless of where they came from) who truely want to work for this company and appreciate the opportunity, who do you think would contribute more to the company, pilot group and managemant both, you make the call...
I know more than a couple of UAL castaways who are more than pleased to be flying for SkyWest. These folks I welcome with open arms.
Bitter furloughs bent out of shape by the way they have been treated by their former employers then handed a job vs. intervieved newhires (regardless of where they came from) who truely want to work for this company and appreciate the opportunity, who do you think would contribute more to the company, pilot group and managemant both, you make the call...
I know more than a couple of UAL castaways who are more than pleased to be flying for SkyWest. These folks I welcome with open arms.
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UAL272fo,
It's people like you why I have to fly a 70-90 seat aircraft at the same pay as a 50 seater. Some of us don't have other income and pilots who "fly for the love of it" should rent a C-172 on the weekends because they can afford it.
I bet you would take my job at half the pay, "just to be flying again" Just like a bunch of FreeDumb pilots who wanted to fly a cool 70-90 seater for a fraction of the Mesa pay.
The scourge of the RJ can only be halted by increasing the pay at the regionals. The more RJs being flown at the regionals at CRAP pay, the less of a chance I have to move up to a bigger airline for more pay. And if I have to fly a 50-90 seat aircraft, I'd rather be flying it for the major partner.
I LOVE to fly and I also want to fly cooler and bigger aircraft, but I want to get paid for it.
It's people like you why I have to fly a 70-90 seat aircraft at the same pay as a 50 seater. Some of us don't have other income and pilots who "fly for the love of it" should rent a C-172 on the weekends because they can afford it.
I bet you would take my job at half the pay, "just to be flying again" Just like a bunch of FreeDumb pilots who wanted to fly a cool 70-90 seater for a fraction of the Mesa pay.
The scourge of the RJ can only be halted by increasing the pay at the regionals. The more RJs being flown at the regionals at CRAP pay, the less of a chance I have to move up to a bigger airline for more pay. And if I have to fly a 50-90 seat aircraft, I'd rather be flying it for the major partner.
I LOVE to fly and I also want to fly cooler and bigger aircraft, but I want to get paid for it.
Torpid
Well-known member
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Bako Cap
Your type of attitude is getting old. I'm sick and tired of people being bashed because they "love flying." Are we supposed to hate our jobs first and than maybe we'll make more money? Is it not possible to enjoy your job and at the same time demand better pay? Instead of getting on ual727fo about his love of flying, why don't you direct your criticism to the piolts who voted in the same pay for bigger planes?
Your type of attitude is getting old. I'm sick and tired of people being bashed because they "love flying." Are we supposed to hate our jobs first and than maybe we'll make more money? Is it not possible to enjoy your job and at the same time demand better pay? Instead of getting on ual727fo about his love of flying, why don't you direct your criticism to the piolts who voted in the same pay for bigger planes?
Torpid,
Reread my post. We are on the same wavelength. I REALLY LOVE TO FLY! but I want to get paid for it. A bunch of people who don't care about pay because they have other means voted to fly cooler aircraft at the same pay. Management knows how much we love to fly and uses it against us. I know how difficult it is not to fly for a long time, flying is like "Pilot Crack," gotta have it. But, it's just one of the many reasons why regional FOs get paid less than McDonalds employees.
Yeah, I was a bit hard on UAL272fo. I guess I shouldn't have looked at my paycheck before logging on.
Reread my post. We are on the same wavelength. I REALLY LOVE TO FLY! but I want to get paid for it. A bunch of people who don't care about pay because they have other means voted to fly cooler aircraft at the same pay. Management knows how much we love to fly and uses it against us. I know how difficult it is not to fly for a long time, flying is like "Pilot Crack," gotta have it. But, it's just one of the many reasons why regional FOs get paid less than McDonalds employees.
Yeah, I was a bit hard on UAL272fo. I guess I shouldn't have looked at my paycheck before logging on.
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.....
SGU,
The FLL rumor has been around since before the IAH rumor. IAH is now a reality. I havn't heard anything on FLL lately. We're supposedly going to do CAL connection there. There was also a new Dash 8 pulling out of the hangar is SLC a couple of weeks ago going back to Canada.
Scott
SGU,
The FLL rumor has been around since before the IAH rumor. IAH is now a reality. I havn't heard anything on FLL lately. We're supposedly going to do CAL connection there. There was also a new Dash 8 pulling out of the hangar is SLC a couple of weeks ago going back to Canada.
Scott
Bako Cap,
I guess I should look at my pay check too - wait, I don't have one!!
Yes I love flying, and I worked for a major airline at 3rd year pre 9/11 wages. Now, I don't have that option, but I do have a few. Those options are Skywest or Mesa. Skywest is where I would like to be. I will not forgo a paycheck for flying an airplane simply to keep you happy - we are not talking about crossing a picket line, or a Freedom Air act here. We are talking about a pilot, who doesn't fly, wanting a job flying for a good company.
I have been on the street and made the best of it by starting my own business, but until you spend some time on the street after flight instructing, flying cargo, flying for a regional and finally making it - with over a thousand piltos under you on the seniority list, then have it all yanked away - don't preach. It has been a long time since I've been looking at the sunset from the sky, and I miss it. If you are really that jaded, take some time off - like 8 months or so. You will soon appreciate the industry for what it is.
I am not the reason, and neither are pilots "like me" that Skywest is flying 70 seat RJs for 50 seat wages - the market is. Do you really think that in this market, pilots can afford to just "band together" and refuse to fly? I've seen what that can do to an airline's culture, and let me tell you, it isn't pretty and it does nothing for the industry as a whole.
Off my soap box now - feel free to flame.
Randy
I guess I should look at my pay check too - wait, I don't have one!!
Yes I love flying, and I worked for a major airline at 3rd year pre 9/11 wages. Now, I don't have that option, but I do have a few. Those options are Skywest or Mesa. Skywest is where I would like to be. I will not forgo a paycheck for flying an airplane simply to keep you happy - we are not talking about crossing a picket line, or a Freedom Air act here. We are talking about a pilot, who doesn't fly, wanting a job flying for a good company.
I have been on the street and made the best of it by starting my own business, but until you spend some time on the street after flight instructing, flying cargo, flying for a regional and finally making it - with over a thousand piltos under you on the seniority list, then have it all yanked away - don't preach. It has been a long time since I've been looking at the sunset from the sky, and I miss it. If you are really that jaded, take some time off - like 8 months or so. You will soon appreciate the industry for what it is.
I am not the reason, and neither are pilots "like me" that Skywest is flying 70 seat RJs for 50 seat wages - the market is. Do you really think that in this market, pilots can afford to just "band together" and refuse to fly? I've seen what that can do to an airline's culture, and let me tell you, it isn't pretty and it does nothing for the industry as a whole.
Off my soap box now - feel free to flame.
Randy
METARzan
Fellow Aviator
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Randy,
I applaud your attitude and look forward to seeing you in the crew room.
Yes, Skywest has its share of problems. The whole industry has problems right now. I agree that we need to keep working to improve our pay and standard of living. I don't think the way to accomplish that is by bashing each other on web boards.
I think if we want to be treated like professionals, we must act like professionals. I have commuted on UAL weekly for the last 6 months and have been treated with respect. Those UAL pilots who CHOOSE to come to Skywest will be treated with respect as well.
I applaud your attitude and look forward to seeing you in the crew room.
Yes, Skywest has its share of problems. The whole industry has problems right now. I agree that we need to keep working to improve our pay and standard of living. I don't think the way to accomplish that is by bashing each other on web boards.
I think if we want to be treated like professionals, we must act like professionals. I have commuted on UAL weekly for the last 6 months and have been treated with respect. Those UAL pilots who CHOOSE to come to Skywest will be treated with respect as well.
Doggiepaddle
Active member
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- Posts
- 36
Doesn't anyone realize.....
It seems that Skywest pilots are flying 70 seaters for 50 seater prices. Let's look at the situation. There are NO 70 seaters at Skywest yet, and management is saying possibly Jan but more likely March. Well the "agreement" was only for 18 months, and it was signed 7 months ago. That leaves 11 months left. In March there will only be 4 months left on the agreement. It seems that the Skywest pilots will have to fly them for the same wage for 4 months. Seems like Skywest pilots may have outsmarted management on this one. They are still about the highest paid and most stable company in the regionals, with about the best work rules and NO furloughs, and they are still hiring. We need to think before we bash, or is it just ENVY?
Doggie
It seems that Skywest pilots are flying 70 seaters for 50 seater prices. Let's look at the situation. There are NO 70 seaters at Skywest yet, and management is saying possibly Jan but more likely March. Well the "agreement" was only for 18 months, and it was signed 7 months ago. That leaves 11 months left. In March there will only be 4 months left on the agreement. It seems that the Skywest pilots will have to fly them for the same wage for 4 months. Seems like Skywest pilots may have outsmarted management on this one. They are still about the highest paid and most stable company in the regionals, with about the best work rules and NO furloughs, and they are still hiring. We need to think before we bash, or is it just ENVY?
Doggie
Doggie
The agreement covers the 18 month period of July 1st, 2003 to December 31st 2004.
As far as the "pilots may have outsmarted management statement" -- thats about the stupidest thing I've ever read on this message board. The only one that feels good about this pay package is management.
The agreement covers the 18 month period of July 1st, 2003 to December 31st 2004.
As far as the "pilots may have outsmarted management statement" -- thats about the stupidest thing I've ever read on this message board. The only one that feels good about this pay package is management.
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Doggiepaddle
Active member
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- 36
Here's some more info on the whole 50/70 TA.
Uncle Jerry showed up at a recent skyw checkairman meeting. He said that we (pilots in the 50 seat RJ) are still OVERPAID! So those of you who are under the impression that things are going to get better after the 18mo TA is up are just kidding yourselves.
I believe that we will be stuck at these pay rates for ALOT longer than just 18mo.
After all what power do we have to fight it???
Oh, and congrats on all you UAL furloghees that get to come work here at Skywest (and start at second year pay). I'm getting the feeling that somehow I'm subsidizing this. After all UAL wasn't going to give Skywest a high enough fee for departure so WE could get the extra pay for the 70 seater, because they (UAL) needed that extra money so they could pay Skywest for their superior furloghed pilots to come fly OUR 70 seaters.
Becoming a little bitter, sorry.
Uncle Jerry showed up at a recent skyw checkairman meeting. He said that we (pilots in the 50 seat RJ) are still OVERPAID! So those of you who are under the impression that things are going to get better after the 18mo TA is up are just kidding yourselves.
I believe that we will be stuck at these pay rates for ALOT longer than just 18mo.
After all what power do we have to fight it???
Oh, and congrats on all you UAL furloghees that get to come work here at Skywest (and start at second year pay). I'm getting the feeling that somehow I'm subsidizing this. After all UAL wasn't going to give Skywest a high enough fee for departure so WE could get the extra pay for the 70 seater, because they (UAL) needed that extra money so they could pay Skywest for their superior furloghed pilots to come fly OUR 70 seaters.
Becoming a little bitter, sorry.
PBRstreetgang
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