What's up at Gemini?

[Talon757]

WARN act not optional

ATA didn't acknowledge the WARN act at all on April 3d when they pulled the plug. Our MEC and ALPA did initiate litigation over that but since the lawyers are involved who knows how long it will drag out. I don't think it is even slated to come before the judge until next February. There is precedent, though. I don't remember the airline's name but a similar thing happened six or seven years ago to someone else and the lawsuit was successful. The result, I believe, was back pay for the percentage of the required 60 days stipulated by the WARN act which the company failed to give notice.

 

[Colonel Savage]

ATA didn't acknowledge the WARN act at all on April 3d when they pulled the plug. Our MEC and ALPA did initiate litigation over that but since the lawyers are involved who knows how long it will drag out. I don't think it is even slated to come before the judge until next February. There is precedent, though. I don't remember the airline's name but a similar thing happened six or seven years ago to someone else and the lawsuit was successful. The result, I believe, was back pay for the percentage of the required 60 days stipulated by the WARN act which the company failed to give notice.

WARN Act can be waived if during the 60 days prior to shut down the company was seeking additional financing or capital in order to prevent the shutdown. At least, that's the way it was explained to the unfortunates at a certian carrier recently.

 

[propilot]

It was fun while it lasted...Hey, anyone need a MD11 pilot with a type rating and 25 hours in type?

 

[b707guy]

Nevertheless, we will continue operating our business as usual.

Seems to me that business isn't so "usual" for approximately 55 pilots, 28 FEs, and who knows how many other people directly affected by this. As with so many others in recent weeks and months, my heart really goes out to you all, and hope that you're back on your feet soon.

 

[tjsatter]

Some critics have claimed that Chapter 11 bankruptcy is excessively lenient in giving a needless "escape hatch" to the incompetent management of a failing company, damaging the efficiency of the economy as a whole and allowing poor managers to continue managing. It is unusual for the management of a company in Chapter 11 to be fired, as it is usually assumed that the present management team knows far more about the company and its customers than would a new set of management. These critics note that in Europe, bankruptcy law is far less lenient for failing companies.
Another efficiency criticism is that a company undergoing Chapter 11 bankruptcy is effectively operating under the "protection" of the court until it emerges, in some cases giving the bankrupt company a great advantage against its competitors, distorting the market and harming more competitive businesses. Where a key market participant (or more than one) goes into Chapter 11, it can also result in significant over-capacity in the industry. The most-cited recent example is the airline industry in the United States; in 2006 over half the industry's seating capacity was on airlines that were in Chapter 11.[1] These airlines were able to stop making debt payments, freeing up cash to expand routes or weather a price war against competitors — all with the bankruptcy court's approval. This is especially important in the airline industry as fixed capital costs for the airplanes (and the debt on those costs) make up such a large part of the airlines' expenditures.
Others criticize the process on the basis that, by forestalling the creditors' rights to enforce their security in the event of non-payment, it reduces the economic value of collateral in the United States, and thereby increases the cost of secured lending. However, studies on the subject seem to reach different conclusions on the extent of this, or indeed whether it is in fact the case at all in practice.[2]




Source: Wikipedia


tj


[edit]

 

[Colonel Savage]

...The most-cited recent example is the airline industry in the United States; in 2006 over half the industry's seating capacity was on airlines that were in Chapter 11.[1] These airlines were able to stop making debt payments, freeing up cash to expand routes or weather a price war against competitors — all with the bankruptcy court's approval. This is especially important in the airline industry as fixed capital costs for the airplanes (and the debt on those costs) make up such a large part of the airlines' expenditures...

And your point is?

Just kidding...

 

[fokkers&beer]

Sorry to hear this guys. I imagine the CEO is trying to fix some of Sammies screw ups?, and I guess Rima must be busting her a$$ trying to dig up new lucrative South American contracts for the 10.
The more things change the more they stay the same I guess. Once again I'm sorry and angry to hear this at the same time. You do not find a better, more motivated pilot group than over there. Management just always seems to find a way to mess it up.

 

[Kaman]

Sorry to hear that for all the GAC guys out on the street, including some very good friends of mine from CJC that moved over to the "big iron". I guess one could hope that UPS might buy up whats left of the operation, but doubtful that it would be a full-fledged merger. UPS just wants the MD-11s, and perhaps some of the infrastructure to operate the GAC MD-11 routes.

 

[b707guy]

Good news is getting hired by UPS. Bad news is being bought by them.

 

[Browntothebone]

Sorry to hear that for all the GAC guys out on the street, including some very good friends of mine from CJC that moved over to the "big iron". I guess one could hope that UPS might buy up whats left of the operation, but doubtful that it would be a full-fledged merger. UPS just wants the MD-11s, and perhaps some of the infrastructure to operate the GAC MD-11 routes.

Sorry to hear about the troubles at GAC, but keep dreaming if you thing UPS will have anything to do with them. UPS MIGHT want to BUY the MD-11s, but that would be IT.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I have flown with enough Challenge guys to know I want no part of a UPS buy out.

I've been told Challenge was infested with numerous ex-Eastern SCABS. If true, it sounds like UPS made a wise choice not to hire any of them.


BBB

 

[Browntothebone]

I've been told Challenge was infested with numerous ex-Eastern SCABS. If true, it sounds like UPS made a wise choice not to hire any of them.


BBB

Exactly BBB. I'm glad that UPS purchases assets and not entire companies. This avoids the problem of dealing with the acquired companies employees.

 

[AV80R]

... I have flown with enough Challenge guys to know I want no part of a UPS buy out...

I have run into a few ex-Challenge guys who did get hired here and I too heard they had many scabs in their ranks but most of them did not get hired...

I don't know the whole situation and it was way before my time but one guy actually said he was glad some of his former coworkers didn't get hired. The way he talked I almost wonder if it truly was UPS that didn't want to hire all those Challenge guys or if they simply listened to some of those they'd hired already?

Either way, it's old news and most of it is rumors anyways, who knows what really happened...

 

[b19]

What do you mean auctioned off Aug 11 ?
I thought it was a ch. 11, not a 7.
Please explain further.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Gemini to be auctioned off on Aug 11th..

No disrespect intended to the Gemini guys, but this just illustrates a point. GAC is in Ch 11 for the second time in two years. On Aug 12th, barring some miracle, all GAC pilots are on the street. We agree so far (though again I express my sympathy for the GAC pilots' position.)

Here's my heartburn. On midnight of Aug 11th, IF some knight in shining armor comes along, then the GAC pilots would no doubt DEMAND DOH or some or other ridiculous integration formula. Most people would say the GAC pilots ought to simply count their lucky stars at being stapled to ANY seniority list... seeing how they were just hours from filing for UNEMPLOYMENT benefits.

I don't see how this hypothetical situation is materially different from the TWA/AA situation? But, boy do those ex-TWA guys
feel like the got the "shaft"! I don't get "it"?

BBB