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What's the scoop eagle?
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MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
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Hey, this seems to be quite the meeting place for furloughed Eaglers (I got the notice 11/1). Misery loves company, right? The latest I've heard is that there may possibly be a limited number of recalls sometime soon, nothing solid. I think the union is going to arbitration with the company over the scope issues and American Connection sometime next month, which may or may not affect recalls.
Anybody else know anything more definite???? Let's all hope for the best!
Anybody else know anything more definite???? Let's all hope for the best!
My furloughed brothers
Hey guys. I've heard pretty much all the flight attendents have been recalled. I've been talking to one that was furloughed the same day I was and she's back now. She's seen some AA guys on IOE in the RJ. I can't complain too much I'm making alot more than I was there but I miss the job. Funny, I ran into a furloughed ATR driver in Las Vegas sitting at the bar. He was on his dinner break from a shoe store where he sold shoes and made 3 times more than he did at Eagle. And we want to go back!! Go figure...I guess the ends justify the means.
Hang in there......
Corky
Hey guys. I've heard pretty much all the flight attendents have been recalled. I've been talking to one that was furloughed the same day I was and she's back now. She's seen some AA guys on IOE in the RJ. I can't complain too much I'm making alot more than I was there but I miss the job. Funny, I ran into a furloughed ATR driver in Las Vegas sitting at the bar. He was on his dinner break from a shoe store where he sold shoes and made 3 times more than he did at Eagle. And we want to go back!! Go figure...I guess the ends justify the means.
Hang in there......
Corky
hello, good news and bad news
Here is what I have heard and what I know. We had a system bid come out today 1/15/02. This one had 42 capt. and 36 FO openings. The bid said it would not backfill ORD FO and DFW SF3 CA. The rumors have been they will use furloughed FO for any unfilled openings. I have heard it might go really slow, like 10-20 a month.
The other news is that Peter Bowler sent out a letter today. It stated that per the AA/APA contract, Eagle is not allowed to grow ASM's while AA has pilots on furlough. He is correct. They have that aggreement. He goes on to state that we are financially responsible to accept 38 jets this year. Well, since RJ's eat up more ASM's than Turbo-props (i.e faster, and longer trips) he said that unless AA can get the APA to drop their ASM requirement, Eagle will have to ground 80 turbo props by the end of the year, and furlough more employees.
Peter could be sending out a threat letter.....who know's. He said he was optimistic that the APA will allow us to grow, but if they do not, AA will honor the contract.
Couple of my thoughts, APA will not allow Eagle to grow while AA pilots are on furlough, and AMR has never honored contracts very well. I also think AMR wants out of the turbp-props quickly, so why not blame it on someone else if your going to do somthing bad. So it sounds like it may get even more ugly.
These are approx fleet numbers from the company propaganda site: 77 saabs, 48 atr 42/72, 100 emb, 2 crj, for a total of 227 airplanes.
If the fleet turns out the way the letter states, the numbers will be 140 rj's, 45 turbo-props, total of 185 airplanes, a decrease of 42 aircraft.
I hope you are looking for better employment because I sure am!
Here is what I have heard and what I know. We had a system bid come out today 1/15/02. This one had 42 capt. and 36 FO openings. The bid said it would not backfill ORD FO and DFW SF3 CA. The rumors have been they will use furloughed FO for any unfilled openings. I have heard it might go really slow, like 10-20 a month.
The other news is that Peter Bowler sent out a letter today. It stated that per the AA/APA contract, Eagle is not allowed to grow ASM's while AA has pilots on furlough. He is correct. They have that aggreement. He goes on to state that we are financially responsible to accept 38 jets this year. Well, since RJ's eat up more ASM's than Turbo-props (i.e faster, and longer trips) he said that unless AA can get the APA to drop their ASM requirement, Eagle will have to ground 80 turbo props by the end of the year, and furlough more employees.
Peter could be sending out a threat letter.....who know's. He said he was optimistic that the APA will allow us to grow, but if they do not, AA will honor the contract.
Couple of my thoughts, APA will not allow Eagle to grow while AA pilots are on furlough, and AMR has never honored contracts very well. I also think AMR wants out of the turbp-props quickly, so why not blame it on someone else if your going to do somthing bad. So it sounds like it may get even more ugly.
These are approx fleet numbers from the company propaganda site: 77 saabs, 48 atr 42/72, 100 emb, 2 crj, for a total of 227 airplanes.
If the fleet turns out the way the letter states, the numbers will be 140 rj's, 45 turbo-props, total of 185 airplanes, a decrease of 42 aircraft.
I hope you are looking for better employment because I sure am!
You said it....here we go.
Well here we go...this will get ugly
FORT WORTH - American Airlines is seeking a waiver from the Allied Pilots Association so it can increase the size of its American Eagle regional operations beyond restrictions in the union's contract.
Union leaders have agreed to discuss the subject as part of contract talks, which resumed this week after being on hold since Sept. 11. But the union's president criticized executives for making the issue public and accused management of trying to sow division among union workers.
In a message posted late Tuesday on the union's Web site and telephone hot line, Allied Pilots President John Darrah said, "It appears that we are back to 'business as usual,' with management using a public forum in an attempt to foster division between employee groups - in this case, the American Airlines and American Eagle pilots.
"Ironically, management has criticized [the union] for publicly airing contractual disputes, rather than bringing them to the negotiating table for resolution," he said. "Yet when management wants something from the union, they don't hesitate to use the very same tactic."
AMR Chairman Donald Carty disclosed American's request Tuesday in his weekly message to employees. Carty said man- agement asked union leaders to discuss the waiver in hopes of avoiding layoffs at American Eagle this spring when its operations are expected to bump up against contractual limits.
Carty said the company will honor the contract language if the union doesn't grant a waiver. But he made the case for why he believes a waiver is in the interests of American Eagle workers and American's pilots.
"We have asked the [Allied Pilots] for a waiver to keep American's recovery going strong, and we're very optimistic that the union will understand how important Eagle's feed is to the big airline," Carty said.
AMR Corp., parent of American and American Eagle, is expected to report a record quarterly loss of more than $500 million today.
American spokeswoman Karen Watson said that, under the contract, American Eagle's operations cannot exceed 40 percent of the total number of flight hours or available seat-miles offered by the two AMR-owned airlines combined.
The union agreed to discuss the matter, but Darrah told his members that the contract provision does not require that its operations be reduced.
American Eagle's size has been a source of acrimony since the late 1980s, when AMR began acquiring its former regional airline partners and converting the old American Eagle franchise network into a true second airline within AMR. Pilots at American, like their counterparts at other major airlines, quickly came to view regional airline operations as a way to outsource work to lower-paid workers.
In 1997, American's desire to deploy dozens of new-generation regional jets at American Eagle was a major factor in a pilots union strike halted after seven minutes by President Clinton. Ultimately, the two sides reached a compromise granting bigger raises to the pilots in exchange for regional jets. That deal included a provision limiting the size of American Eagle if any American pilots were laid off.
Well here we go...this will get ugly
FORT WORTH - American Airlines is seeking a waiver from the Allied Pilots Association so it can increase the size of its American Eagle regional operations beyond restrictions in the union's contract.
Union leaders have agreed to discuss the subject as part of contract talks, which resumed this week after being on hold since Sept. 11. But the union's president criticized executives for making the issue public and accused management of trying to sow division among union workers.
In a message posted late Tuesday on the union's Web site and telephone hot line, Allied Pilots President John Darrah said, "It appears that we are back to 'business as usual,' with management using a public forum in an attempt to foster division between employee groups - in this case, the American Airlines and American Eagle pilots.
"Ironically, management has criticized [the union] for publicly airing contractual disputes, rather than bringing them to the negotiating table for resolution," he said. "Yet when management wants something from the union, they don't hesitate to use the very same tactic."
AMR Chairman Donald Carty disclosed American's request Tuesday in his weekly message to employees. Carty said man- agement asked union leaders to discuss the waiver in hopes of avoiding layoffs at American Eagle this spring when its operations are expected to bump up against contractual limits.
Carty said the company will honor the contract language if the union doesn't grant a waiver. But he made the case for why he believes a waiver is in the interests of American Eagle workers and American's pilots.
"We have asked the [Allied Pilots] for a waiver to keep American's recovery going strong, and we're very optimistic that the union will understand how important Eagle's feed is to the big airline," Carty said.
AMR Corp., parent of American and American Eagle, is expected to report a record quarterly loss of more than $500 million today.
American spokeswoman Karen Watson said that, under the contract, American Eagle's operations cannot exceed 40 percent of the total number of flight hours or available seat-miles offered by the two AMR-owned airlines combined.
The union agreed to discuss the matter, but Darrah told his members that the contract provision does not require that its operations be reduced.
American Eagle's size has been a source of acrimony since the late 1980s, when AMR began acquiring its former regional airline partners and converting the old American Eagle franchise network into a true second airline within AMR. Pilots at American, like their counterparts at other major airlines, quickly came to view regional airline operations as a way to outsource work to lower-paid workers.
In 1997, American's desire to deploy dozens of new-generation regional jets at American Eagle was a major factor in a pilots union strike halted after seven minutes by President Clinton. Ultimately, the two sides reached a compromise granting bigger raises to the pilots in exchange for regional jets. That deal included a provision limiting the size of American Eagle if any American pilots were laid off.
MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Posts
- 89
For you guys out on the street, the best way to stay up on whats going on is to visit the ALPA web site.
WWW.ALPA.ORG
If you don't know your ALPA number, you can contact Brenda Cover at 800-871-0899.
There is always new info being posted. This evening there was even an online meeting with the MEC Chairman in a chat room. There are plans for another one next Wed. at 9pm EST.
Good luck, hope to see you guys back online soon.
WWW.ALPA.ORG
If you don't know your ALPA number, you can contact Brenda Cover at 800-871-0899.
There is always new info being posted. This evening there was even an online meeting with the MEC Chairman in a chat room. There are plans for another one next Wed. at 9pm EST.
Good luck, hope to see you guys back online soon.
MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Posts
- 89
Hey, I was just reading the AE pilot website, the rumor page. Apparently, the company has decided to recall some pilots. They state that 28 recall notices will be sent out on 1/18/02, and another group will be recalled in late FEB or early MAR.
This doesn't make sense, given the letter that Bowler recently put out. Is this a temporary recall or what??????
This doesn't make sense, given the letter that Bowler recently put out. Is this a temporary recall or what??????
MartinFierro
Flyin' Gaucho
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Posts
- 89
johnsugar@compu
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2001
- Posts
- 11
The Pilots at American have responded quickly. Looks like things might work out well in the long run if AMR accepts it. Try this link for the news release. John
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020117/dath044_1.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020117/dath044_1.html
Skywalker
Furloughed Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 20
yeah basically that's what it says...with eagle being recalled behind AA, and TWA....is that 595 number AA or does that include TWA...
if that includes TWA, that now means there are 900 pilots furloughed for this "one Carrier" to be recalled...how long is that going to take...
also mentioned was getting rid of the outsourcing of AA flying...could that be good riddance to CHQ and Trans states?
if that includes TWA, that now means there are 900 pilots furloughed for this "one Carrier" to be recalled...how long is that going to take...
also mentioned was getting rid of the outsourcing of AA flying...could that be good riddance to CHQ and Trans states?
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The 595 number for AA does not include TWA LLC. As of 1 Feb 02 (61 more furloughes), there will be 290 LLC pilots on furlough.
Total of 885 from AA & TWA LLC combined, but NOT including AE.
AA also just announced they will return all TWA LLCs 717s by Jun 02.
Since AA is continuing to operate under "force majuere," I doubt if they'll go for the combined seniority list concept and pay APA-negotiated RJ pay rates to AE pilots, if they can in any way avoid it. Could be an interesting year, gentlemen.
Be interested to hear AE'ers views on a combined list, even if it meant taking the brunt of furloughs on a combined list.
Total of 885 from AA & TWA LLC combined, but NOT including AE.
AA also just announced they will return all TWA LLCs 717s by Jun 02.
Since AA is continuing to operate under "force majuere," I doubt if they'll go for the combined seniority list concept and pay APA-negotiated RJ pay rates to AE pilots, if they can in any way avoid it. Could be an interesting year, gentlemen.
Be interested to hear AE'ers views on a combined list, even if it meant taking the brunt of furloughs on a combined list.
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English
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,374
Be cautious, Eaglets. I've heard from many of my Eagle friends today who are excited about this. Notice that phase 2 involves American pilots flying the 50 seat jets (the ones Eagle now has) with Eagle pilots "rapidly" flowing though to these "American" positions.
"Phase Two calls for AMR Corporation to exchange their 44-seat Regional Jet orders for 50-seat Regional Jets and have them delivered to and flown by American Airlines. Once all American Airlines and TWA LLC pilots are recalled, American Eagle pilots would rapidly flow-through to these new American Airlines jobs."
Wake up, these are currently Eagle positions! This sounds like the old flow-through agreement all over again, only this time, Eagle has to give up RJ flying they already have? In my experience, many at Eagle are blinded by the promise of the flow-through, and are willing to give away anything to get it. I used to work there, I've seen it. I'd caution everyone to see the full proposal before getting so excited over this press release.
"Phase Two calls for AMR Corporation to exchange their 44-seat Regional Jet orders for 50-seat Regional Jets and have them delivered to and flown by American Airlines. Once all American Airlines and TWA LLC pilots are recalled, American Eagle pilots would rapidly flow-through to these new American Airlines jobs."
Wake up, these are currently Eagle positions! This sounds like the old flow-through agreement all over again, only this time, Eagle has to give up RJ flying they already have? In my experience, many at Eagle are blinded by the promise of the flow-through, and are willing to give away anything to get it. I used to work there, I've seen it. I'd caution everyone to see the full proposal before getting so excited over this press release.
exeagle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2002
- Posts
- 238
I think most of us sitting on our furloughed butts, are most excited about a positive sign of recalls. All I want is to fly again. Im not worried about one seniority list at this point. But you do have a point, I mean, eagle must have the worst and longest contract of all the regionals. The bottom line is that whatever it takes to prevent more furloughs at eagle and get us back online has got to be considered a positive thing. As for me, Im still crossing my fingers. Good Luck...
Im all for it, by the time it is alll worked out all pilots will be back on the line. they can have the CRJ700 only 2 airplanes, phase 1. Phase 2 fly the new ERJ's then pase 3 all pilots one one list. I would love to put my bid in for 757 FO DFW even if it took me 5 years to get it.
Eagle flight xxx, opps I mean American xxx
Eagle flight xxx, opps I mean American xxx
English, you are correct on this one. I'm a current Eagle guy, and I don't like how phase one and two of that whole deal are sounding. If this were to occur, by the time Eagle was integrated into AA, it would be time for you to flow-thru anyways. They'd probably staple on some stipulation like "All previous Eagle pilots must acquire 6000 hours of total time before bidding an AA aircraft (F-100 and on up)."
Half of the guys here at Eagle would love to get furloughed for 5 years if they could get an AA number. Not me. I'm not buying into that crap. It's pathetic. I can't believe how anyone that's worked at Eagle could still have such a boner for AMR. The whole flow-thru has clogged this company to a pathetic gridlock. Guys who would've gone to Southwest, Airtran, etc, chose to stay at Eagle for the extra 4 years so they could flow to AA. I've seen it. There seems to be a point at Eagle, somewhere around 3 - 3.5 years with the company, that most of the guys give up applying elsewhere and condemn themselves to flowing through. Then all you hear from them is, "i'll probably be able to hold the jet in 12 months, if things keep going like they are". Quit fooling yourselves guys. This whole thing will end up screwing Eagle in the longrun. That's a negative outlook, but the only way to look at a situation in regards to Eagle and AMR. I've looked forward to many things at Eagle in my short time here, and have been miserably disappointed everytime.
Half of the guys here at Eagle would love to get furloughed for 5 years if they could get an AA number. Not me. I'm not buying into that crap. It's pathetic. I can't believe how anyone that's worked at Eagle could still have such a boner for AMR. The whole flow-thru has clogged this company to a pathetic gridlock. Guys who would've gone to Southwest, Airtran, etc, chose to stay at Eagle for the extra 4 years so they could flow to AA. I've seen it. There seems to be a point at Eagle, somewhere around 3 - 3.5 years with the company, that most of the guys give up applying elsewhere and condemn themselves to flowing through. Then all you hear from them is, "i'll probably be able to hold the jet in 12 months, if things keep going like they are". Quit fooling yourselves guys. This whole thing will end up screwing Eagle in the longrun. That's a negative outlook, but the only way to look at a situation in regards to Eagle and AMR. I've looked forward to many things at Eagle in my short time here, and have been miserably disappointed everytime.
FOAgain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2002
- Posts
- 70
Remember folks, this is just round one. We've seen the opening offers, now let the bargaining begin! No way AMR will sign off on this one as is.
I can't believe all of the Eagles jumping for joy already. I want Onelist too, but SLOW DOWN. This is EXACTLY what got us into a 16 year contract. Remember how much you hate the contract?!?!
Amazing that will we want to to work for AA so badly, knowing **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well that we will suffer the same poor relations for 30 more years. Anything for money eh!?!? Cha-ching.
Congrats to the furlougees coming back. Hopefully they'll keep you around this time!
I can't believe all of the Eagles jumping for joy already. I want Onelist too, but SLOW DOWN. This is EXACTLY what got us into a 16 year contract. Remember how much you hate the contract?!?!
Amazing that will we want to to work for AA so badly, knowing **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well that we will suffer the same poor relations for 30 more years. Anything for money eh!?!? Cha-ching.
Congrats to the furlougees coming back. Hopefully they'll keep you around this time!
FO Again,
I can't agree with you more. Like I said, it has been almost 3 years since I left Eagle and I don't just see APA turning over and giving EGL something for nothing. I just don't see APA changing guards that quickly.
There is something in the silver lining in those clouds! Be Careful.
I can't agree with you more. Like I said, it has been almost 3 years since I left Eagle and I don't just see APA turning over and giving EGL something for nothing. I just don't see APA changing guards that quickly.
There is something in the silver lining in those clouds! Be Careful.
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