Whats so great about working at a major?

[LandGreen]

Just having a little fun. I didn't take anything as a "shot". I spent over 4 years at a Legacy so I felt like I could poke a little fun at your post. Lighten up.

Fox:

Although flying cargo will make you MUCH more money...did you read the current research about life longevity vs circadian cycle disruptions?

Bottom line from research: don't work past your normal bedtime. and even worse, don't work flip flop night/day schedules!

However, you will make tons of money while you are alive!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-29-night-shift-cancer_N.htm

 

[Uniform Shop]

Point being...5 years to 100K as an FO is nowhere near correct with todays pay scales.[/QUOTE

Yes it is and that's without trying. As much as I would like to fly a 72 hour line it's not going to happen unless you are on reserve. 80-85 hours is more like it.

5th year WB pay at CAL

72 hours * 107 = $92,448

83 hours * 107 = $106,572

"Point being" You can count on making at least $100,000 at 5th year mark at CAL and I'm assuming the same at most majors unless you intentionally fly worst case scenario. You would have to work really hard to only make $85,000 at 5th year mark.

That's not including the $6,000 to $8,000 in profit sharing either.

 

[waveflyer]

splitting hairs over 10-year widebody CA and whether it should be $225 rather than $185/hr. To suggest these people are struggling, by virtue of having been compensated better 10 years ago, is ludicrous.

I would say that's more than splitting hairs- the difference is $40/hour(!) That's more than many FO and turboprop captains make, period. We have set up our career so that we sacrifice what we are to make now, for the widebody pay we expect later-(backwards thinking(!)) only to see it reduced by >30-40% and then have $millions in pension benefits stolen- I can see how a widebody captain could very legitimately be struggling.

Perspective? Ok- i'll grant you- i don't live in Darfur right now, and i'm grateful everyday for my existence period. But i will also take pride in what i do and negotiate for my value. More importantly i'll speak out against the underhanded techniques that government and management have used since 9/11 to extort these huge concessions.

So again- i'll ask- what's your point? Seems you view this topic through the eyes of being experienced in a professional free market. There are many differences, some subtle-some glaring, that make an airline career very different from any other.

I'm sorry to jump on you- but i take exception to the "you fly a plane..." comment. You're damn right i fly a plane-just like most of us on these boards- and i do it professionally, safely, and with pride everyday. I'm not narcissistic or an ego-maniac, we simply do something safely every day in which fair weather pilot doctors and lawyers, athletes and celebrities of all kinds of intellect manage to kill themselves trying to do every year. I have not lost sight of the fact that it is us, ALL OF US, and our training, abilities, and decision making that make this airspace system so safe.

I'll be down to earth- but i hope i always take exception to anyone who tries to marginalize my career and it's worth.

 

[instructordude]

I've been riding on the Delta that is based out of ATL and to this day I find absolutely no improvement in their customer service. I do believe there is only one DAL...and I'm 99.9% sure that's the same DAL you've been riding on.

I never meant to remind you that you're not going Mach 2...and quite frankly that was not the intention of my post. What did make me give the prior poster the whale eye was the fact he said a 737 is "difficult" to fly while an RJ is easier and quite a bit of fun. Honestly (and I'm not trying to be a jerk whatsoever), flying a large airplane with quite a bit of automation (even on the 737-300 with the round dials) is not very challenging. It does get challenging with some nasty crosswinds...but besides that it's pretty routine. LOL - quite a bit different than a wing leveler that most fighters have. So, from the initial point of the entire thread (i.e. what's so great about going to a major) the guy should realize that if he does go to a major, the difficulty of flying a larger airliner probably doesn't change one iota....and shouldn't stop him one bit if he decides to move up.

So is an F-22 challenging with all the automation? I bet it is not but only made challenging by those who fly it.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Actually, I'm not a "I can't believe they pay me to fly a jet" person. I left flying an 145 to fly a lear and king air. I couldn't care what I fly, but I take pride in it and I still fight for pay, qol, and schedule.

CM

Well good on 'ya then. There is, of course, nothing wrong with actually enjoying your job. The problem lies in the fact that so many are chasing the elusive brass ring at the expense of everthing else (pay, QOL, family, fellow pilots, etc), that the brass ring is achievable by fewer and fewer pilots every year.

 

[igneousy2]

To put it blatenly, we need less of you in this profession. It's obvious you're not in aviation for the love of flying. Maybe you should've taken that 20 secured yourself an intro to law school.

CM

Yes I should have...but I didn't.

As to needing less of ones like me...you need MORE like me.

In most other occupations there is a floor to what the salary can be as compared to other occupations because as you lower pay/benefits people STOP doing it.

It is BECAUSE of the "I would fly for free" crowd that our pay/benefits are in the toilet and the trend is going in the wrong direction.

If you stopped paying plumbers...there would be no plumbers...if you stopped paying pilots...there would still be a line of "I love to fly" types at HR's door in the morning.

And since when is $108,000 for a 12th year FO ACCEPTABLE!!! GEEZ people, a 2nd year FO at UPS MAKES $120,000. 12th years FO's made $100,000plus in 1995...in 1995 dollars.

This career is in horrible shape and with the future of our retirements in the hands of guys like "instructor dude" ....geez its scary.

And by the way...I have 3 very close friends that went to law school instead of going to flight training like I did...and they are ALL making well over $100,000 (something I have yet to do in this industry) a year and one cleared 7 figures this year.

Our standards have really gone into the toilet.

 

[Mud Eagle]

So is an F-22 challenging with all the automation? I bet it is not but only made challenging by those who fly it.

Current fighters are easy to fly.

It's the tactical employment and operation of the sensors and weapon systems that's a b*tch.

 

[spacecadet1]

What I find ironic is to see a post which makes light of a $40/hr pay diff at a major. Then read the regional board and watch people trash talk each other about 2$/hr pay differences between regionals. "You ____ guys are whores...you make $61.50/hr. We are better than you...we make $63.60/hr..blah blah blah."
This industry is really going down the crapper.

 

[jke406]

I've been riding on the Delta that is based out of ATL and to this day I find absolutely no improvement in their customer service. I do believe there is only one DAL. .and I'm 99.9% sure that's the same DAL you've been riding on.
quote]

if you've got a problem with whatever airline you're commuting on, please feel free to not fly them in the future.

as it is, they are giving you a free ride to work, FREE. and the least you can do, if not applaud them, is not badmouth them publicly.

take your dogsh!t AF attitude somewhere else. and yes, I was in the AF, and yes, I did attend the same institution you did. Tool.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

You get to say "Regional Pukes" and mean it!

All of the tangible stuff, money, schedules etc. will be better if you move on, notwithstanding the short-term hit you'll take. It's when you start weighing the other stuff like commuting that it starts to get interesting. I think that the gap between the haves & have nots will continue to grow as management continues to play the alter ego game like a fine violin, so the rationale for staying at a regional would have to be even stronger than what would have made sense ten years ago.

 

[pkober]

So is an F-22 challenging with all the automation? I bet it is not but only made challenging by those who fly it.

Explain how a single seat fighter/attack aircraft is easy to fly?

The most challenging approaches we do in the 737, CAT III, are auto lands. Not very difficult. Very cool, but not tough. It is tough not spilling your diet coke, I will give you that.

I would think that if you take a F-22 into combat with SAM's (those are missle thingies that bad guys shoot at aeroplanes) and AAA (that's anti aircraft arty) being fired at you it may become slightly more difficult than a CAT III autoland. Just slightly.

I'm pretty sure the automation you're talking about in a modern combat aircraft is not what you're trying to compare to in an airliner. Automation in military aircraft, generally, doesn't include autoland. On some, maybe. Most deal with weapons and defensive suites.

Can't compare 'em dude.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, you could have fooled me...with your extremely low situational awareness on military matters from the last military thread you decided to weasel your way in on, I didn't even know you knew what "0-6" or "0-5" meant.

Hey ..... not every one is as dumb as you... I'll ask permission next time I venture over to the MIL forum. What is your CO's phone number....

Don't worry, when I pin on 0-5 I'll send you an invite.

No...thanks.... Lt Cols. are a dime a dozen... Call me if your called General-What's-His-Nuts. I tell you the same thing the girls in the O'club tell you... No thanks...

I think there's another jumpseating thread you can brag about on in the regional's section. Your advice is needed asap.

Hey better to be schooled on how to jumpseat on a moniker message board than by your CP at CAL...

 

[TurboJetCpt]

This is a serious question. Is it really that great to take a pay cut for a long time to go to a major from a regional? Is quality of life much better? Hotels? Schedules? I see people are fighting to get into a place like Delta. Please explain what kind of improvments I will find when leaving a captain job at a regional to go over to the majors. I make about 90k a year and have my weekends and holidays off now. So its tough to get motivated to leave, even though I dont really like my job.

Until the unions win back some MAJOR concessions, there IS no future...unless you are in your 20's with lots of time to build that 401k. Time will tell if any of these "majors" make a comeback. As of now, the legacy carriers suck...but who knows what is in the future. Now, if you get on with SWA, FEDEX or UPS, CHA CHING !!!

 

[jonjuan]

And by the way...I have 3 very close friends that went to law school instead of going to flight training like I did...and they are ALL making well over $100,000 (something I have yet to do in this industry) a year and one cleared 7 figures this year.

Our standards have really gone into the toilet.

I also know a few lawyers and all are miserable unless in the bottom of a bottle of tequila.
I am confident that your 7 figure year buddy has standards which are "in the toilet" as you say. You seem to be somehow jealous of these lawyers. Would you really change careers if you knew their day to day jobs? Didn't think so.

 

[jonjuan]

Current fighters are easy to fly.

From a zoomie who has never landed on the boat at night after a 3.5. LOL....

 

[igneousy2]

I also know a few lawyers and all are miserable unless in the bottom of a bottle of tequila.
I am confident that your 7 figure year buddy has standards which are "in the toilet" as you say. You seem to be somehow jealous of these lawyers. Would you really change careers if you knew their day to day jobs? Didn't think so.

Why should I have to change careers? You don't seem to think a well trained, experienced pilot is worth what a starting lawyer at a large law firm is worth.

 

[hopalong]

Amen igneousy2! Pilots are responsible for more lives and real estate than any other profession. Shouldn't we be paid accordingly? It sickens me that some of us qualify for food stamps. We need to stick together and defend our value.

 

[Draginass]

So is an F-22 challenging with all the automation? I bet it is not but only made challenging by those who fly it.

A poster child for . . . .

"Better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are ignorant, rather than open it and prove that you are."

Please don't tell us that the dork in the avatar with the sunglasses and an arrogant grin is really you.

 

[instructordude]

A poster child for . . . .

"Better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are ignorant, rather than open it and prove that you are."

Please don't tell us that the dork in the avatar with the sunglasses and an arrogant grin is really you.

Yeah it is me. Whats wrong with a smile for doing something I love. Frankly the way I look at my job is the company lets me fly the jet for free but pays me by the day to sit in the airport or hotel. I'm having a blast and my avatar says it all. Sorry about enjoying myself.

 

[Hawker dude]

Yeah it is me. Whats wrong with a smile for doing something I love. Frankly the way I look at my job is the company lets me fly the jet for free but pays me by the day to sit in the airport or hotel. I'm having a blast and my avatar says it all. Sorry about enjoying myself.

Dude,

Either you are joking, or you really are a true dork.