What's in a title?

[Turtle21]

Do you have four strips on your pajamas? I flew with a Captain back in the 70's. He never took his uniform off, on a layover he would come to the restaurant in uniform. When asked why he did this, his answer was "People can tell I am an important person by the way I carry myself, so not confuse them on who I am I wear my uniform" So the F/E and I wondered if he had a Captain's PJ's to sleep in.

The title Captain has a broad application, I was called Captain in the Navy, you could half that rank in the USAF and be called Captain, you could be a boat driver, you could be the head doorman at a fancy hotel.

Is posting "I was called captain" on an entertainment message board (lampooning self-promoting captains) the virtual equivalent of wearing 4stripes on your bluejean cutoffs at a family pontoon boat excursion on the bayou?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Mr. Moose got into this with Captain Kangaroo on one episode. It got ugly.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is why I keep coming back to FlightInfo.com! Thank you. Cleaning coffee off the keyboard now.

 

[Dan Roman]

True story. In my freshman year of college I dated a girl whose father was a senior AA capt (mid to late 1960s hire). The mom and daughter would refer to him as Capt. around the house. In his view there was nothing more prestigious, nor any airline pilots better than AA pilots. My father and two older brothers were already at majors, but not truly worthy of his respect as they were not AA pilots. He did offer to let me do his Jepp revisions. The man was sky Nazi through and through. Hard to believe he was not liked by many at AA. His son, who was a good guy got hired at AA around 1990ish and had to pay for his father's jackassness.

Could be if he was hired during that time frame he was a low time, never furloughed pilot. Which means he may have had an inferiority complex. The simple fact is, anyone who has an ego problem that they need to be called "Captain" is also most likely a weak pilot with weak CRM skills.

 

[waveflyer]

I care about the ATP on my license than the captain title until I needed to use it- which was rarely-

That said-

Don't we complain about a lack of respect for "captain's authority" and the erosion of such-

Have we recognized the d-baggery of title envy to our own detriment- wanting to appear to be so normal- we forget daily that what we do is pretty special and not something most people can do

 

[ttuite]

True story. In my freshman year of college I dated a girl whose father was a senior AA capt (mid to late 1960s hire). The mom and daughter would refer to him as Capt. around the house. In his view there was nothing more prestigious, nor any airline pilots better than AA pilots. My father and two older brothers were already at majors, but not truly worthy of his respect as they were not AA pilots. He did offer to let me do his Jepp revisions. The man was sky Nazi through and through. Hard to believe he was not liked by many at AA. His son, who was a good guy got hired at AA around 1990ish and had to pay for his father's jackassness.

Yea but banging his daughter and then dumping her probably felt pretty good.

 

[Clayton Bigby]

I care about the ATP on my license than the captain title until I needed to use it- which was rarely-

That said-

Don't we complain about a lack of respect for "captain's authority" and the erosion of such-

Have we recognized the d-baggery of title envy to our own detriment- wanting to appear to be so normal- we forget daily that what we do is pretty special and not something most people can do

Cogent point. Sure we should recognize that we do something unique and something that requires hard-attained skills and critical thinking. That said, anyone that writes "Cpt" in the salutation box of a magazine subscription is pathetic. There's no need to marginalize our work, however we're not curing cancer.

The quickest way to lose respect is to demand it.

 

[waveflyer]

Cogent point. Sure we should recognize that we do something unique and something that requires hard-attained skills and critical thinking. That said, anyone that writes "Cpt" in the salutation box of a magazine subscription is pathetic. There's no need to marginalize our work, however we're not curing cancer.

The quickest way to lose respect is to demand it.

A cogent point by you as well

To the point of the thread though- I'd say that pendulum swings both ways- except we have a lot of forces out there actively trying to diminish what it means to be a pilot or a captain- I'd say for every pilot signing his name Capt. RespectMe, there's 1 or 2 that are scared to be a captain, and 3 that just don't give a damn.

I've just seen too many downplay what we do in an attempt to be down to earth -
Cool-
I get it-
None of us are discovering the god particle at work tomorrow- but most of us did work our tail off and have to compete - and compete well to get anywhere in this career-
And those with average jobs are still willing themselves through tough schedules in tough areas getting the job done.

I'm just not sure that the pilot industry suffers from too much ego these days- that's why the d-bags stand out so much-
Most of america thinks we just press a button as it is- and it isn't like that most other places-

I don't want a return to the days of over inflated sense of self- but there's also nothing wrong with feeling good about doing something that most people don't have the nuts or will to try, much less complete an perform in every day.

 

[Whine Lover]

I jokingly told a new friend that she and her daughter must address me as "Captain"....It stuck. No matter how much I tried to impress upon them that I was just kidding and that it really made me look bad.

My Brother ( an Airtran Captain ) showed up one day and laughed his azz off when the 10 year old walked by and said "Hi Captain !".

So, I just went with it:

- Custom Bank Checks - "Captain Y.K.W."

- License Plate - "Captain 737-8"

- Mailbox - "Captain Y.K.W.

- Monogrammed Sweater / Towels/ Smoking Jacket - "Captain"

- Business Cards - "Captain Y.K.W."

- Linkedin / Facebook/ Twitter....you guessed it...."Captain"

- Email Address - [email protected]

- Lower Back Tramp Stamp ( Adorned with Wings ) - "Captain"

- Shoulder Tattoos - Gold Tone - Four Bars - Outlined in Blue

I sleep in Monogrammed pajamas....with my Captain's Hat, Captain's Wings, and most importantly...My Captain's I.D.


Now, I am off to my Asian dating site....where I am widely known as "The Captain" and respected and revered beyond words.


Captain Y.K.W. ( Although I am currently an F/O )

 

[pilotyip]

Cogent point. Sure we should recognize that we do something unique and something that requires hard-attained skills and critical thinking. That said, anyone that writes "Cpt" in the salutation box of a magazine subscription is pathetic. There's no need to marginalize our work, however we're not curing cancer.

The quickest way to lose respect is to demand it.

Then there is the famous management cry when something goes south on the trip "Who was the Captain?"

BTW: All the mail I get from USAA has Captain in front of my name, and USN (ret) after my name.

 

[Turtle21]

No one should downplay the hard work it is to be a captain in any area of life.. or any title for that matter. Titles mean things and garner well deserved respect. My mailman appreciates that I call him First Mate, and he deserves the respect (on FI.com too ). And to think he might never have known to apply for the job accept that he knew I bought a bigger boat when my Bass Pro Shop catalogues were addressed to "Yacht" Captain Smith, instead of just captain.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Funny you should ask.

Story goes that I take a few classes here and there trying to better myself. I have a class that the instructor was PIC er. Captain of a 737 operator. His email correspondence with me has the title Captain. I was commenting on it when my wife chimed in on my conversation with myself. So I thought I would toss flightinfo.com a softball to see what everyone else thought.

Guess I am not the only one that thinks this is an improper use of a title. I have too many hobbies, right now I am making a peltier fan to sit on top of my woodstove so I can steal free electricity from physics. Google that!

Here's another opinion:

This is one of those gray areas, in that it's hard to articulate, but you'll "know it when you see it" (when the title is and is not appropriate, that is). Flight crew hierarchy, and society in general, has become more relaxed over the years, and with it, the use of such titles.

However, it was quite obvious to me that to actually ask such a question on a annonymous forum such as Flight Info, could only have one outcome: annonymous ridicule. This came to mind as soon as I read your original question, and it didn't take long to come to fruition. You likened it to "tossing a softball," but instead of hitting it out of the park, the batters simply caught it, and then threw it back at your head as hard as they could.

Bubba

 

[Turtle21]

Here's another opinion:

This is one of those gray areas, in that it's hard to articulate, but you'll "know it when you see it" (when the title is and is not appropriate, that is). Flight crew hierarchy, and society in general, has become more relaxed over the years, and with it, the use of such titles.

However, it was quite obvious to me that to actually ask such a question on a annonymous forum such as Flight Info, could only have one outcome: annonymous ridicule. This came to mind as soon as I read your original question, and it didn't take long to come to fruition. You likened it to "tossing a softball," but instead of hitting it out of the park, the batters simply caught it, and then threw it back at your head as hard as they could.

Bubba

If you build a high fence human nature is such that people will fight to get over it... In similar fashion, everyone is a king in their own kingdom, thus if you travel to foreign lands wearing your crown, someone is bound to knock it off... Especially on a web board for plots.

 

[flyboyike]

Whenever I'm in uniform, I find that just about all non-crew call me Captain, even though I've never been one. Even rampers.

 

[waveflyer]

Along the same lines-

When did each of you figure out the below things?:

* that very few know what you do
* that few really want to know
* that few will ever know, except glimpses that they'll immediately shove out of their mind
* that you could care less

 

[Phlintstone]

...Any pilot who uses the term Captain Jackass in the outside world (like at a restaurant) should be kicked in the nuts...

This...

06

 

[Simon Says]

Here's another opinion:

This is one of those gray areas, in that it's hard to articulate, but you'll "know it when you see it" (when the title is and is not appropriate, that is). Flight crew hierarchy, and society in general, has become more relaxed over the years, and with it, the use of such titles.

However, it was quite obvious to me that to actually ask such a question on a annonymous forum such as Flight Info, could only have one outcome: annonymous ridicule. This came to mind as soon as I read your original question, and it didn't take long to come to fruition. You likened it to "tossing a softball," but instead of hitting it out of the park, the batters simply caught it, and then threw it back at your head as hard as they could.

Bubba

Ok, I get it. If I post a light hearted topic on flightinfo then I can expect to get flamed by a few members. And then when I explain the scenario, then I can expect others to stand up for the first person flaming me, stating that I should expect the softball thrown back at my head as hard as they can.

Got it. Although, I am disappointed with some folks and their human nature ridicule.

My common sense screams just to ignore these few posts including yours. My other side wants to engage, and now you know my downfall...I don't listen to my common sense.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Ok, I get it. If I post a light hearted topic on flightinfo then I can expect to get flamed by a few members. And then when I explain the scenario, then I can expect others to stand up for the first person flaming me, stating that I should expect the softball thrown back at my head as hard as they can.

Got it. Although, I am disappointed with some folks and their human nature ridicule.

My common sense screams just to ignore these few posts including yours. My other side wants to engage, and now you know my downfall...I don't listen to my common sense.

Hey, I'm not ridiculing you, or even saying that it's not a legitimate question. I'm just saying that the responses received on an anonymous board were predictable. You know?

Bubba

 

[Simon Says]

Hey, I'm not ridiculing you, or even saying that it's not a legitimate question. I'm just saying that the responses received on an anonymous board were predictable. You know?

Bubba

Sorry...I took it the wrong way. I suppose its hard to judge simply by written words instead of all the other non verbal communications someone has face to face.

JB

 

[acpilot]

I think road team truckers should be called Ground Captains. The senior driver in the team shall hold the additional title "Steering Wheel Commander" or, at social gatherings, "Supreme General of the Gas Pedal." The ranking driver must, at all times, wear their medals except when being awarded additional medals.

 

[ableone]

It used to be 1st pilot / 2nd pilot until Jaun Trippe decided to appropriate the nautical Captain, First, Second, Third Officer because he thought it was good marketing and it spread.

I always thought all the ALPA correspondence with "Captain This" to and from "Captain That" on it made us all look like idiots.

When I was an ALPA committee chair I actually had to fight to just send stuff out under my name and signature without "Captain" all over it.

The only guy at Brand X that introduces himself as "Captain ME" (and insists everybody call him this) is the director of training. It makes him sound like a tool and he is generally regarded as such.

My first boss was a retired USN 06 who had been pre-selected as a CAG before he took a seven year detour to the Hanoi Hilton.

We both have uniforms in our closets with four stripes on the sleeves but it's really not the same thing.

I still address him as "Captain" or "sir". He calls me by my first name.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I don't care what they call me as long as they pay me like a NFL Quarterback, you know, just like the good ole days.

 

[humveedriver]

Should I start calling my lawyer friends counselor?

We call our JAG "counselor" all the time out of respect and because it sounds cool once in a while. I don't mind referring to retired guys as Capt out of respect. Do what feels right I say. To me it's more of professional courtesy vice an actual title that you went I school for like doctor/esquire or whatever.

 

[waveflyer]

http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/magazine/2007/March2007_CaptsAuthority.pdf

 

[doh]

My father is a retired Dr. He goes by his first name or Mr. One or two people in his retirement community refer to him as "Doc" occasionally, but that is about it.

 

[njcapt]

- License Plate - "Captain 737-8"

- Mailbox - "Captain Y.K.W.

- Monogrammed Sweater / Towels/ Smoking Jacket - "Captain"

I've seen your car and mailbox, so I know this isn't true. Apparently, I haven't stayed at YKW Headquarters late enough to see the smoking jacket.

My first boss was a retired USN 06 who had been pre-selected as a CAG before he took a seven year detour to the Hanoi Hilton.

We both have uniforms in our closets with four stripes on the sleeves but it's really not the same thing.

I still address him as "Captain" or "sir". He calls me by my first name.

That's great. I refer to one of the guys I fly with who was a KC-135 Commander in Viet Nam as either Colonel or General depending on whether he's SIC or PIC on a given trip. He calls me Kev.

 

[The Drizzle]

I preferred "Grand Moff."

 

[CapnVegetto]

Any airline pilot that calls himself captain or insists upon it is a colossal fcking douc-he*bag and needs to be repeatedly kicked in the d-ick so it is impossible for him to procreate and add more of his stupid fcking DNA to the world.

 

[labatt]

Any airline pilot that calls himself captain or insists upon it is a colossal fcking douc-he*bag and needs to be repeatedly kicked in the d-ick so it is impossible for him to procreate and add more of his stupid fcking DNA to the world.

Says the guy with Capn as a screen name........Classic!


Nicely played.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Says the guy with Capn as a screen name........Classic!


Nicely played.

Touch?! You got me there. But I don't spell it with a 't' so it's ok

:sheepish

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Any airline pilot that calls himself captain or insists upon it is a colossal fcking douc-he*bag and needs to be repeatedly kicked in the d-ick so it is impossible for him to procreate and add more of his stupid fcking DNA to the world.

Won't work, he already knocked up a F/A when he was an F/O, but when he upgrades he will be able to afford alimony for 2 more wives and their kids, unless he is a regional guy, then he will live in his parents basement "apartment".