Whats all this BS about the BS degree?

[tdvalve]

_________________________________________________
"I believe in the 80/20 rule:

About 80% of people having degrees are intelligent, capable, reliable, and professional. The other 20% are not.

People without advanced education reverse the percentages.

You can't rule out one group altogether, because there are gems and bums in both groups. But if you are an employer hiring people for an important job, one your customers need to be able to trust also - which goody bag do you want to pull from?

- Brett"
_________________________________________________


I couldn't disagree more! After a lot of years as a professional pilot and many more in aviation management, I've never noted any significant difference in the intelligence, capability, or professionalism of those who hold degrees and those who don't. And, I'd give the edge on reliability and work ethic to those without a degree.

 

[Kaman]

Education

Hello,
I've ignored this thread since it was started, however, my curiosity got the better of me and I read a bit today. What I read from a couple of folks made the hair stand-up on the back of my neck.
Education vs. intellect is an argument that has gone on for a long time. Speaking from personal experience as an enlisted flight crewmember, civilian pilot and holder of a B.S. in Aviation Mgt. I feel qualified to respond to a few of the posts regarding enlisted intellect vs. officer education. First of all, I was amazed continuously at the LOW quality of intellect that many officers that I served with muddled by with. In fact, I was downright amazed that many of them made it through college, "boat school" (Naval Academy) and god help us, flight training. The arrogance of an individual to assert that because a commisioned officer has a college degree instantly posesses them with superior intellect is not only arrogant, but offensive.
Personally, I felt that the preparation I put into preparing for my initial CFI was much more demanding than my college education and just about all my military training, which was considerable. As an aside, the folks that made these remarls are obviously unaware or never opened their division officer's notebook (another joke in of itself) to take notice of just how many of their subordinates had not only a college degree, but perhaps an advanced degree to boot.
In my military specialty, we did everything that a Naval Flight Officer was trained to do and MUCH more and just about any NFO or pilot that flew in any ASW aircraft will attest to this. About the only thing we couldn't do was drop weapons from the aircraft.
This is one post that really raised my ire to the seething point and once again displayed the typical ignorance of the average J.O. (junior officer) that was fed a line of BS during ROTC, OCS or USNA. The biggest problem is most of the officers I knew (J.O.s) in particular were more worried about A.) chasing the "holy grail" or career path B.) Pissing off the X.O. C.) What they were going to wear to the next "hail and farewell D.) Oh yeah, the guys in my division!
Don't read this as a imbittered message from a disgruntled sailor. It's not, I'm simply telling you how it is and was in much of my service. I also had the privilege of serving with combat-experienced veterans, some outstanding Naval officers and aviators and some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed fine enlisted Naval Aircrewman. The peacetime military is breeding ground of "careerists" and not warriors. This I did discover to my disappointment.

Fly Navy, the Best always have...

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Chunk]

Amen, Kaman....

Chunk

PS--This guy taught a few of the courses I took in the Navy....he BS's not....

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Degree

The guy above me wrote:
"And, I'd give the edge on reliability and work ethic to those without a degree."

I couldnt disagree more, I have found that people without degrees tend to be less reliable and have questionable work ethic. I think many people you see that didnt go to college or dropped out did so because of a lackluster work ethic. I was around Division I athletes my college career and saw some of the most dedicated people in the world, especially the ones that went on to finish and graduate. You had to be dedicated and a hard worker, the athletes that quit school tended to be the quitters in general. They didnt have the work ethic to suceed in the course work or college athletics. Most of us that went as jocks are both physically and genetically gifted and could get by in high school with a questionable work ethic. Well in college most everyone is physically and genetically gifted so to suceed you had to bust your tail.

The guys that quit athletics I think are like a lot of people that didnt go or didnt finish college. They have bad work ethics and are not dedicated at life in general. Sports are like a small microcasm(sp?) of life and college some people have what it takes to suceed, some dont.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

ok, I'll play

bj fighter(between your handle and your pic you should choose one cause I know you don't mean it the way it looks or sounds)
Vs.
tdvalve

let's vote on whose opinion would carry more weight. Give each persons profile a quick study.

BJ, get over yourself. I would say most people participate in athletics. People quit for all sorts of reasons. Some of us quit wrestling simply because getting sweaty with other dudes sux or just plain old played other sports that were way cooler. I am gonna have to say the same thing I said to another person earlier in this thread. Experience...you seem lacking, I am not talking about flying either.

Of course if you can tell me what years you won NCAA wrestling titles, I will apoligize and declare you great, otherwise you belong with the rest of us in the world.

I will say work ethic is an individual matter.

No more posts from me on this thread!

 

[70Cuda]

Good Grief!!! I can't believe this thread. Any person who says a 4 year degree, or any amount of schooling, is worthless is a complete idiot!!! From reading this thread I gather we have a lot of idiots flying out there.

College will always make a smart person smarter, unless you floated those years away inside of a beer keg, or you just didn't care about bettering your stupid self.

I work in the HR dep. at my airline. If you don't have a college degree your several steps behind those that do. I don't care how many kids you raised as a single parent going through flight shool, or whatever your sob story is, your still behind the power curve!!!

In case some of you morons still don't get it, I'll spell it out for you. We do not just hire people who can wiggle sticks. If that were the case we'd stick a robot or monkey in our cockpits. We try to hire intelligent and progressive people who will represent us in a positive light. Our pilots, just like our FA's, are the company/customer interface. We want employees who can articulate a sentense, converse intelligently with the public, problem solve, and possibly write an accident report using proper grammar, etc, etc. In other words, we want Professionals! That means we want employees who strive to BETTER themselves.

Sorry, Rumpletumble, with jacked-up posts like yours you'll never make it at my airline!!! I'm sure you don't know what I'm talking about otherwise you never would have questioned the worth of higher education. You'll know who I am because from now on I'll be asking the interviewees what they think about education.

Remember this: "Those that don't-have will always be jealous of those that do-have." For those of you with a degree, and a respectable transcript to back it up, you will always be fighting this battle against those without degrees.

With that said......GO GET THAT DEGREE!!!!

"JEEZ!!!"

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Degree

70Cuba wrote
"Remember this: "Those that don't-have will always be jealous of those that do-have." For those of you with a degree, and a respectable transcript to back it up, you will always be fighting this battle against those without degrees.

With that said......GO GET THAT DEGREE!!!! "

AGREED! The have nots will always be jealous losers.

 

[Dep676]

Wow, what an arrogant SOB 70Cuda. Tell us what airline you work at so we don't apply there.

Education is very important, it's not everything. It doesn't matter what you got hanging on the wall at home. If you can't fly the airplane. Your passengers would like that huh? They can't fly or land the plane but hey they got a degree hanging on the wall at home. Boy I am glad I just got bounced down the runway 3 times. I guess he was just getting in his currency requirments in the same landing.

I am sure you know all about people though. You probably got a degree in HR and that makes you an expert on all. Get a life. To call someone a moron because they don't have a degree. Is that what they taught you in college? Man can I be like you when I grow up? We all didn't have silver spoon hanging out of our A$$. Some of us had to pay our own way through college. Mommy and Daddy didn't foot our bills.

 

[MEI96]

You all are missing the point! A college degree may not make you a better pilot heck, it may not make you a better person. But it will definitely help you out when you can no longer fly i.e. lose your medical, get old, lose your license (for whatever reason, being drunk maybe one of them), or get furloughed for an extended period. At least you have something to fall back on. If you don’t you’re screwed! That’s why I have a BS in Finance and a MBA in Financial Engineering in addition to my flight certificates. It may not make you a better pilot but it’s important to have something to fall back on so you can keep those paychecks coming.

 

[bobbysamd]

Having "the degree"

Indeed, the degree with help you, in ways you might not imagine.

I went to college the same time most people do and earned a B.S.B.A. in Accounting. I started with that program and stuck with it, although I decided to pursue radio in about my second year of college. I figured it would be a good fall-back and the business training would be valuable. I never used any of that training except to do my own tax returns in broadcasting or in aviation, except that my accounting background helped me balance my logbook. Of course, my degree filled that all-important square on airline apps, which seems to be the primary reason this discussion got started.

I left flying and became a paralegal. Then, twenty-two years after I earned my degree, I finally put it to work at work, preparing accountings for probate and preparing trust tax returns. It also helped me understand the various business entities with which law offices deal. My point is you may not think you'll ever use your college education, but, chances are, you will.