Whats all this BS about the BS degree?

[kamikaize]

Ok I guess I'll bite!!!!! One of the richest men in the world dropped out of harvard to start his own company.... Any guesses??? Bill Gates. I do believe that you shouldnt be discriminated against if you do not have a college degree. We should be hired for who we are and the experience's we have had in aviation. I know alot of pilots out there that do not have a degree and they are doing just fine. I do understand why companies like to hire people with degree's. It shows them that the person is disciplined and can handle the tasks in their training. On the other hand I think you are who you are with or without a degree. I played sporst in HS and in college before I was injured and quit school. I decided to get all my ratings and start building time to get ahead of all the people going to college. It worked for me!!! Now that I have the time, experience and a good job, I can finish my degree. So I dont feel we should judge a persons ability and education by a piece of paper!!!!

 

[Dep676]

Well Said

Hey well said kamikaize!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beechnut]

The more people that think like Rumpletumbler, the easier it will be for me to get a job.

S.

 

[enigma]

Ok I guess I'll bite!!!!! One of the richest men in the world dropped out of harvard to start his own company.... Any guesses??? Bill Gates.

Not to argue for arguments sake, but I've seen this example given too many times; and it's a false analogy.

We can both find numerous examples of non-degree'd people who have achieved excellence in the ENTREPRENUARIAL (spelling?)world.
Bill Gates, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

But the airline pilot world is 180 degrees away from the world of entreprenuers. They succeed as individuals, while we can only succeed as members of a larger organization. I would love to find some way to become entrepranuerial as an airline pilot, but I don't want to run an airline, so I guess that I stick to doing a little pilot service work in the corporate world on my days off.

The issue of education vs. experience is valid for discussion. I too wish that the airlines would find a better way of screening resumes, but that's the way it is; and there's not much we can do about it.

regards
8N

 

[JBHewlett]

Good analogy

Cases like Richard Branson and Bill Gates are so rare its hardly worth mentioning. Like enigma said they are single people. As far as being an entrepranuer you will have to start an aviation bussiness, and if you want to be an entrepranuer and fly you will have to also deam your self the chief pilot of you avaition venture. I would suggest if this is what you want to do, to start a single pilot CFR part 135 operation, flying a Be-58 or a C-310. I know these kind of 135 operations can work.

Being an Aviation entrepranuer requires some funding to begin with and unless you live in a busy area, making and endevor like this may be hard to make practical. Paying off the loans, etc, that have occumulated during the start up phase of the bussiness may be difficult to pay off if your bussiness projections aren't as up to par as you thought they were going be.

However the rewards from a bussiness like this would be fullfilling in knowing that you created it. Although it would take alot of hard work.

Fly safe,
J.

 

[70Cuda]

Dep676,

Please take off your beer glasses, then reread my post and point out where I wrote people without degrees are less intelligent then those who have one. As for the rest of your post, it shows you "assume" beyond your mental capacity to reason. Do I need to remind you about what is said about people who assume to much.....?

Let me shed some more light on this subject from 6 years of HR
statistics.

Of the pilots we hired during the past 6 years who have failed to pass our FO training/aircraft transition course 83% had less then 1 year of higher eduaction (beyond high school).

88% had less then 1000 hours TT.

Because of stats like these (among many others) we use such discriminators (among many others) to attempt to select pilots who will successfully pass our training on the first attempt. Will we pass over someone who may potentially make a great pilot, of course!! We just don't have the TIME or MONEY to give everyone a chance. Welcome to the REAL WORLD!!

Folks, in no way am I saying pilots without degrees, or low flight time, are less intelligent. The rigorous pace of our training demands that our pilots have good study habits, dicipline, and motivation to hit the books hard. A college degree, along with respectable grades, gives us a small, I repeat, a small insight into a candidates ability to do this. We use many other discriminators to validate our selectees.

Dep676 and Rumpletumbler are good examples of why we also require our interviewees to read a short passage and then write a short essay explaining what they just read. A lot of information can be gleaned from the written word. Why, you might wonder, should we care about a persons ability to interpret accurately what they have just read. Well, in part, I repeat, in part because we don't want our employees constantly missinterpreting our policy letters,OPS, flight manuals, etc, and causing unwarranted trouble. We've had issues in the past because of this. Today, I can brag the my company has one of the finest group of pilots in the World.

In closing, I would like to pass along what I think is the most important quality a person should have that will ultimately land them that interview and dream job (besides having good networking skills).

1. Never stop improving yourself. Whether it's reading a good historical novel, practicing your mental math, or getting a college degree. Believe me, it will "come out in the wash!"

Regards, 70Cuda

 

[Dep676]

In case some of you morons still don't get it, I'll spell it out for you. We do not just hire people who can wiggle sticks. If that were the case we'd stick a robot or monkey in our cockpits. We try to hire intelligent and progressive people who will represent us in a positive light. Our pilots, just like our FA's, are the company/customer interface. We want employees who can articulate a sentense, converse intelligently with the public, problem solve, and possibly write an accident report using proper grammar, etc, etc. In other words, we want Professionals! That means we want employees who strive to BETTER themselves.
/B]

Well let's see the first sentence here. You mention for you morons.

I did go to college and I will be the first to admit that I didn't well in english. My wife is always hounding me about it. I can however, fly an airplane.

I don't think not going to college should disqualify somebody though. Like someone said earlier you are the same person with or without the degree. There are plenty of upstanding pilots that I have flown with that have no degree's at all and they are outstanding employees. So to say that just because someone doesn't have a degree they won't respresent the company well. Is complete BullSh!T. They are much more professional people than others that I have come in contact with that have a degree. You HR people sit in your offices all day and think up stupid tests for applicants to take. That have nothing at all related to the job which you are applying for. That's a real judgement of the applicant. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

By they way why not spill the beans on which airline you work for. So the next time I happen to fly on said airline. I can notice all these upstanding employees you claim to have working for you.

 

[70Cuda]

Dep676,

Again, nowhere in my post does it belittle those without degrees. The "moron" refers to those who question or devalue higher education, or any education, for that matter. They come in all shapes and sizes, with degrees and without.

And again, we do not judge solely on the basis of having a degree or not. It is one of several discriminators we use. Do we hire pilots without 4 year degrees......yes we do! Only if they have a recommendation from one of our pilots, though. We simply do not have the time to sift through the 3000+ applications in our office.

I agree with you about there being HR types out there that come up with irrelative criteria for judging applicants. I question Comairs method. Everyone on our hiring staff has at least a PPL. I have an ATP, and on occasion still fly the line.

We have specific qualities that we require our line-pilots to have, and we use proven screening methods that are very effective. Contrary to what you may believe it is very difficult to identify competent pilots given the short amount of time we have. One sim ride and a few tec questions won’t do it. That conclusion comes from experience

It's always easy to criticize others without offering solutions. Given 3000-4000 applications and 3 months to hire 200 pilots who can safely fly your aircraft and represent your company in the best possible light, tell me your method!! And remember, your job is at stake.

By the way, you'll know who I am if you come for an interview. Look for the 70Cuda in front!!

 

[rumpletumbler]

70Cuda,

If you will look at my first post you will see that you have assigned your own meaning to what I have said. I never said that education was not important. What I did say was that I thought that getting a degree with my level of education would be a waste of time. If you still don't get my point then just know that there are lots of folks out there who are much more educated than you are who have never stepped foot into a school. Before you blow a rod I didn't say that I was one of those people but they are out there. I might be but I'd have to know more about you to make that call. I can tell that I'd be a whole lot more fun to be around at a party though.

P.S. Cars are just a mode of transportation. A to B. Don't waste your bucks on a 70 "cuda." When I was sixteen I was lucky enough to be able to get a car and I got a family type car. Why? Because I didn't need any help to get a girl and wanted to filter those types of people out before they ever reached me. That's stupidity discrimination in a true form not like in whether someone has a degree or not.

RT

 

[TurboS7]

I havn't read the other post but having four years of college and not having a dgreee I will speack from experience. Without a degree you will make max between 50K and 100K unless you are in business for yourself, then all bets are off. The real problem is that once you are older with a family it becomes harder and harder to find the time needed even to think of studying. Do it now and once you have it you have it.