What will Flex do?

[nightfr8er]

Hey hatetoadmitit - thanks for the side by side look. I had been reading the new contract post on the IBT site for NJA. I was beginning to think that the balance tipped heavily in NJ's corner, but I really appreciate the time to do the comp.

Someboy mentioned that the upgrade at all the fracs is long. Does that include NJA? How long is it? I heard that a lot of the bypassed FO's will be upgrading so that kind of skews things, but any guess?

Would anybody rather be at Cont, Jetbl or Airtr rather than where they are at a frac?

You guys rock!

 

[gunfyter]

guess 4 to 5 yrs to upgrade NJA. 1000 SICs on the property need to upgrade before next newhire.

CS would likely be the quickest upgrade IMO. Why? Largest increase in fleet size percentage wise compared to the current fleet size.

 

[miles otoole]

guess 4 to 5 yrs to upgrade NJA. 1000 SICs on the property need to upgrade before next newhire.

CS would likely be the quickest upgrade IMO. Why? Largest increase in fleet size percentage wise compared to the current fleet size.

That's historical. Upgrades going forward aren't based on historical fleet growth. They are based on future fleet growth. Big difference. That's akin to saying stock xyz will increase 50% per year because it has done so in the past. Just don't be overly excited about NJA mgmt saying they plan to take the same number of aircraft going forward than they have been in the past. The future owners drive deliveries, not some management lackey simply saying they want x number of planes. It's a bit different animal than the airlines where you can always fill new aircraft deliveries by simply lowering the price to increase demand.

 

[gunfyter]

I am not overly excited. I am saying with 1000 SICs on the property its not reasonable to expect more than 200 upgrades a yr. Maybe one yr there could be more. Best case is 4 to 5 yrs to upgrade... is a guess.

another way to look at it is if you come in at #2400... with 60/40 Capt/SIC ratio... there needs to be 4000 pilots on the property before you upgrade... or 1600 more than there are now.

How long will it take NJA to hire 1600 pilots? More than 4 yrs I think.

 

[bluepost]

Any 5 yr flex guys care to comment on the 6k more a year statement? Just curious.

Under the TA a 5 yr captain will make 90k base, $2960 MINIMUM on holiday pay (working the line that works the least holidays per year), and MINIMUM of 5k in hourly OT. That is 98k for 182 days a year.

If flex guys work 40 days more a year our reserve would be in the ballpark in days work (yet on reserve/on call which Flex guys aren't on) and that would pay about 112k-114k minimum with no ext days for 216 days a year.

So does a flex guy make 104k a year or 118k?

 

[cosmotheassman]

Bluepost are you guessing at the OT and holiday pay??? I don't understand your math on the flexjet side of it... Can you break it down for us simple folks with only bachelors degrees???

 

[bluepost]

Sorry..should of been more clear...regarding my flex numbers I added the "6k a year more" to my netjets numbers to get what Flex management is saying Flex pilots make.

As for as the holiday/OT pay...Holiday pay is not a guess, it is actually the minimum you will make on a line if you stay on that 7and7 all year. $3k is the minimum and about 6K is the most you can make in holiday pay (unless you extend on those holidays you aren't sked to work)

Hourly OT is a wag...the union claimed 7-9k I think, I used 5k as a very conservative number.

I have made 5k in hourly OT so far this year under this contract and its lousy pay, but I am on the 17 day tour and have 3 tours a month which is a 50% increase in first day starts which is where a large amount of OT is made. So 7k in hourly OT should be easy to attain.

I am in no way trying to beat anyone down...I just want to make sure this info is out there and very clear so what XYZ management comes and shows that a 5th year guy is making 90k "the same as NJ" that all the comparisons are made and added such as:

Hourly OT
Holiday Pay
$0 monthly cost insurance...medical, dental, vision, loss of medical, short and long term disability
2 weeks vaction - 5 yrs / 3 weeks 5-10 / 4 weeks 10+
Ext day rates at 150% of daily rate ($780 per day for a 5th yr cap under TA)
50% match on 401k

I truly hope that Flex/Shares/Options get everything we got plus 5%, but it won't happen unless all of the details are out there and guys make it known...these "details" equal over 18k a year in additional compensation over base pay

 

[cosmotheassman]

Bluepost,

The way I'm looking at it, a 5th yr captain at flex makes a base pay of around $72k, not 104k. AND, that's already working 40 days more...

Just curious, since you work at NJ, how you know about the $6k statement that was made???

 

[Grizz]

Cosmo,

Got to tell ya dude, all your proud posting about flex doesn't hold any water once the numbers come out. 40 more work days a year and only making 72K. Hmmmm...

WTF dude? You seem to be pretty sharp on the board. Why profess the company line and rah-rah for a company that obviously wants slave labor? This is a job...nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't define who you are. If a company refuses to treat you and pay you like a professional, then force them to or leave.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Bluepost,

The way I'm looking at it, a 5th yr captain at flex makes a base pay of around $72k, not 104k. AND, that's already working 40 days more...

Just curious, since you work at NJ, how you know about the $6k statement that was made???

Cuz I told him about it... Shameful to post flex secrets I know...

Listen I know who I work for and I know my happiness to should not ever be based on what some other guy is making blah blah blah and other BB propaganda. The facts as I see it is flex, nj, flops, cs etc -- us pilots are all doing the same thing and comparing our benies and incomes should only come as a threat to those in the "vast right wing conspiracy" of screwing us to the wall.

Do I want to make what a nj guy makes -- it all depends on what he has to put up with to get it so maybe not. But I won't ever be able to satisfy that question without all the facts...

And the reson I posted was exactly for this reason -- I wanted to check the spin against the facts. But as I have said all along, $$ don't matter if your QOL sucks. I am still holding out hope flex will come out on top of that one. I'll sacrifice some scratch from flex to get in a little more scratch at home...