what the regionals should be

[d.fitz]

If you are flying corporate/charter you ain't a third generation "airline" pilot. You are a corporate pilot (and most likely getting quite abused for your $31k).

And yes, you are being a hipocrite. Its easy to call people whores in the anonymous message boards but let's see what you do when the layoffs come around. 1800 total time says first job outta school and clueless.

Thanks for playing.

 

[wheelsup]

. These clowns think they're in heaven getting paid $60k a year to fly a jet....as a Capt.
I know the salaries of the old days will never be seen again. The days of a FO making $110k a year to fly a MD-80 or DC-9 are LONG gone. I would personally like to thank the J.O's of the industry, the "whore" who will fly for free, and outfits like Gulfstream, and TAG.

First of all, I think you ment TAB, as in TAB Express. TAG is a charter company.

FO's still make $110k+ to fly DC-9's at NWA. Check it out here. It's a major - you didn't specify what company but I'd bet my right nut no regional EVER paid $110k for an FO, EVER.

Taking the $19,000/yr job leads to a much better lifestyle than the McDonald's manager - I'd bet my left nut that they sure don't work 15-17 days/month. When I was in high school and worked at Pizza Hut, our manager worked over 70 hours a week on average...Not only that even if you took that job at Mesa you'd be making $100/hr at the top of the todem poll - not to shabby (IMO!).

Most of the better regionals top out at over $100,000/yr . That's still fairly descent pay - not for flying for a career, I agree, but still VERY livable.

Hasn't pay always been low in the regional industry? I had an instructor that actually quit at Comair because take-home pay was $952 a month (obviously before the new contract). He made more money as an ERAU ground instructor! This was sometime before 2003, when he was telling the story.

I think the reason people are so depressed with the wages is because they can't go to a regional and 3 years later go to a major - they have to spend a lot more time at the regionals (maybe even their whole life...). Atleast that's my thought on it.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Quote:
We make life or death decisions every minute of every day we are in that cockpit, and we are paid the equivilent of a manager at McDonalds...


You must be kidding, right? This line may work well when impressing chicks or drunks at the bar, but I'm gonna call BS on this.

This overinflated sense of our own importance is actually hurting our credibility.

Flying is relatively easy, requiring good judgement and common sense and dedication. That is worth a reasonable salary, certainly.

But we are not Apollo astronauts or Navy Seals.

When mgmt hears arguments like this, they laugh their a$$es off.

Believe me I would love it if we were really such heroes, but we require only what it takes to accomplish any other skilled profession.


Sometimes I think if more pilots spent their time becoming the true professionals they think they are, we would have a much firmer place to request more compensation from mgmt.

 

[100LL... Again!]

By D.Fitz
If you are flying corporate/charter you ain't a third generation "airline" pilot. You are a corporate pilot (and most likely getting quite abused for your $31k).

And yes, you are being a hipocrite. Its easy to call people whores in the anonymous message boards but let's see what you do when the layoffs come around. 1800 total time says first job outta school and clueless.

Thanks for playing.



LMFAO

 

[rgnlwannabe]

Don't forget Horizon doesn't get paid for actual block, just scheduled. That is a lot of money I find.

That may be, but because of the trip and duty rigs, I am usually paid based on duty time, or Time away from base, which always exceeds scheduled block.

 

[N813CA]

rgnlwannabe

That is fine but next time why don't you get that in your contract. At comair most of our flying is way underblock, but if you end up holding for 2 hours going into LGA,JFK,ATL,ect... That is another $80.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

As long as the CFI pay (and I know a lot of CFIs who don't make what they're worth either) stays where it is then people will take regional jobs because it's still a pay raise for them.

Honestly, this statement in no way justifies anything, and it gets kind of old hearing it all of the time. How big is a 172 compared to an RJ? How big is a 172 cockpit versus that of an RJ? How big is a 172 operating manual versus that of an RJ? Now.....how big is the PAYCHECK difference between the two? Not enough...thats for sure. Anybody who thinks that a $20 per month increase is reasonable to go from a CFI to the right seat of a 50 passenger jet needs to think again. Sure, I understand that its a great opportunity for these people, but please, don't act like the pay is fair and reasonable just because its more than CFI pay. Yes, I'm in the process of getting on with a regional myself...and its a paycut for me. My goal has always been to fly for the airlines, and I feel that this is a step that I need to take for personal achievement. Believe me, if every pilot out there would stop applying to regionals in hopes of raising the pay, I would postpone my career plans in a heartbeat. Realistically, that isn't going to happen...because too many low time CFI's and such that are still mesmorized by the celebrity like images of airline pilots portrayed in their flight school's advertising still consider it a "pay raise". I'm not trying to start a flame...just stating the truth.

 

[DoinTime]

Honestly, this statement in no way justifies anything, and it gets kind of old hearing it all of the time. How big is a 172 compared to an RJ? How big is a 172 cockpit versus that of an RJ? How big is a 172 operating manual versus that of an RJ? Now.....how big is the PAYCHECK difference between the two? Not enough...thats for sure. Anybody who thinks that a $20 per month increase is reasonable to go from a CFI to the right seat of a 50 passenger jet needs to think again. Sure, I understand that its a great opportunity for these people, but please, don't act like the pay is fair and reasonable just because its more than CFI pay. Yes, I'm in the process of getting on with a regional myself...and its a paycut for me. My goal has always been to fly for the airlines, and I feel that this is a step that I need to take for personal achievement. Believe me, if every pilot out there would stop applying to regionals in hopes of raising the pay, I would postpone my career plans in a heartbeat. Realistically, that isn't going to happen...because too many low time CFI's and such that are still mesmorized by the celebrity like images of airline pilots portrayed in their flight school's advertising still consider it a "pay raise". I'm not trying to start a flame...just stating the truth.

A good concept in theory but theory doesn't put food on the table or pay the rent. A pay raise is a pay raise, plain and simple.

If regional pay were of the numbers we all would like to see them at we would all be instructing to 5000+ hours and hauling freight in a broken down 310 for another 5000+ hours just to get that chance at an interview. There is a reason why the majors don't have to hire out of the CFI ranks.

 

[SkyWstman]

A good friend of mine installs laminate floors. He charges 2.00 a square foot. He did a 700 square foot job today and walked away with 1400 bucks. I flew an RJ today as a captain and made about 350 bucks. There is something wrong here.

 

[d.fitz]

Wayback:

Call someone a whore after you join the big leagues, EH, Rookie!

 

[flyer172r]

Honestly, this statement in no way justifies anything, and it gets kind of old hearing it all of the time. How big is a 172 compared to an RJ? How big is a 172 cockpit versus that of an RJ? How big is a 172 operating manual versus that of an RJ? Now.....how big is the PAYCHECK difference between the two? Not enough...thats for sure. Anybody who thinks that a $20 per month increase is reasonable to go from a CFI to the right seat of a 50 passenger jet needs to think again. Sure, I understand that its a great opportunity for these people, but please, don't act like the pay is fair and reasonable just because its more than CFI pay.

Sorry to upset you but I think you're reading too much into what I was saying. I never said the regional pay is fair and reasonable, or that CFI pay justifies paying regional pilots crap. All I was saying was that as long as there is a pay raise to go from CFI to regional pilot then those CFIs will take it if it can help them pay the rent and stay off food stamps (although I'm sure with some regionals they'll still be on food stamps). Believe me, I would love nothing more than to see regional pay be at the level we all think it should be at.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Sorry to upset you but I think you're reading too much into what I was saying. I never said the regional pay is fair and reasonable, or that CFI pay justifies paying regional pilots crap. All I was saying was that as long as there is a pay raise to go from CFI to regional pilot then those CFIs will take it if it can help them pay the rent and stay off food stamps (although I'm sure with some regionals they'll still be on food stamps). Believe me, I would love nothing more than to see regional pay be at the level we all think it should be at.

No worries....its just the mentaility of some people that gets irritating. I'm glad that you have a sensible perspective on things.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Honestly, this statement in no way justifies anything, and it gets kind of old hearing it all of the time. How big is a 172 compared to an RJ? How big is a 172 cockpit versus that of an RJ? How big is a 172 operating manual versus that of an RJ? Now.....how big is the PAYCHECK difference between the two? Not enough...thats for sure. Anybody who thinks that a $20 per month increase is reasonable to go from a CFI to the right seat of a 50 passenger jet needs to think again. Sure, I understand that its a great opportunity for these people, but please, don't act like the pay is fair and reasonable just because its more than CFI pay.

You guys must be forgetting what it was like to be instructing for several years. The whole time, you were just waiting for the first opportunity to get out of that tiny friggin cockpit and get on with your career. (Even if it was a pay cut.) Anybody can survive a small paycut for one year to earn a little more down the road and not have to put up with student that don't listen and are trying to kill you every flight. You forget that the regionals are still a temporary step in the airline pilot's career. Granted, it's a much longer step than in previous years, but it's a required step nonetheless. (If you want to get to the majors anyway.) Don't blame instructors, who are trying to advance their career's, for your decision to work at a company where pay is not what you once dreamed. It was your decision to take the job and you knew what you were getting into. If you took the job with the idea that you would fight hard with your union to get the pay up to the level you think is appropriate then keep on fighting and don't b!tch about flight instuctors keeping you down when you lose the battle.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You seem to have missed my point. No matter what steps we take to try to make this industry better, we can always be replaced or undercut by someone who is willing and WANTS to work for nothing...just because they're blinded by the "exotic and celebrity-like lifestyle" of being an airline pilot. Look at GIA's academy for instance. Its full of people with this ridiculous and inaccurate mentality. I'm not saying that all CFI's are like this. My point is simple...I want to fly for the airlines and have since I was a 12 year old kid, but that doesn't mean that I want to be taken advantage of. Now, if I refuse to take this step in my career simply because of the low pay, what effect does it have on anything? I mean, there's always some CFI or other low time guy thats going to be willing and eager to work for nothing...so its a no-win situation. My point was not to bash CFI's....my point was that as long as people are overly ambitious and have ridiculously overblown impressions of the "exotic airline pilot life", we will never be able to raise any bars. I think a reality show should be made about airline pilots..maybe then people will wake up and smell the house burning down.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

My point was not to bash CFI's....my point was that as long as people are overly ambitious and have ridiculously overblown impressions of the "exotic airline pilot life", we will never be able to raise any bars.

If it isn't for the "exotic airline pilot life" as you put it, why are you flying for a regional for such sh!ty wages?