what the hell "sapa"

[Blucher]

Once again, ALPA is NOT your only option. Look around the industry and you will see this.

-Blucher

 

[jayme]

His intention is that SAPA be removed, thereby leaving the pilots with no choice for representation other than ALPA. This tactic is an 'end around' because Mark and the OC know that if they'd simply put it to a vote, that the majority would not vote for ALPA over our current structure. Removing our current structure makes it an easier fight for them, and since they haven't sold the majority on adopting a union mentality. this is their plan 'B.'

Mark has stated publicly that he didn't know about the lawsuit until AFTER it was filed. How did he have a hand in showing the court that SAPA is an illegal entity?

I'll save you the time: HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TRYING TO DISOLVE SAPA.

 

[jayme]

the fantasy that persists seems to be that with ALPA on board we'll just demand things and get them, and that these items that you are unhappy with will just be taken care of because ALPA can force management to do what they want.

I have NEVER heard this argument from the OC. The point of a contract is to PRESERVE what we have instead of the slow but steady degredation in compensation and work rules that we are seeing.

 

[Ben Dover]

SkyNation,
You are correct that Mark is a good guy.

I'll tell you what. I'll concede that the OC is doing an "end run", as you say, IF the court rules against the OC. As long as you are willing to concede that management has been doing an "end run" around the pilots for all these years, if the court rules against SAPA.

 

[MYFpilot]

2-again, who wouldn't want more? they make more than any other 30 seat T-prop drivers, however, and you have to be realistic about the environment, the competition, and where your pay lines up in regards to others

4th year Per hour 30 seat rate from airlinepilotcentral.com

ERA DHC-8 $55
Horizon DHC-8 $55
Piedmont DHC-8 $52
Island Air DHC-8 $49
Eagle SF-340 $49
SkyWest EMB-120 $48 (Me)
Mesaba SF-340 $48
Mesa DHC-8 $44
Gulfstream EMB-120 $44
Commutair DHC-8 $41
Greatlakes EMB-120 $36


...Stuck in the middle as usual.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

4th year Per hour 30 seat rate from airlinepilotcentral.com

ERA DHC-8 $55
Horizon DHC-8 $55
Piedmont DHC-8 $52
Island Air DHC-8 $49
Eagle SF-340 $49
SkyWest EMB-120 $48 (Me)
Mesaba SF-340 $48
Mesa DHC-8 $44
Gulfstream EMB-120 $44
Commutair DHC-8 $41
Greatlakes EMB-120 $36


...Stuck in the middle as usual.

Seems that math isn't Skynation's strong suit?!!

 

[Tomct]

I know Mark and knew where he stood. He is a good guy, we just disagree on what will serve this pilot group best. His intention is that SAPA be removed, thereby leaving the pilots with no choice for representation other than ALPA. This tactic is an 'end around' because Mark and the OC know that if they'd simply put it to a vote, that the majority would not vote for ALPA over our current structure. Removing our current structure makes it an easier fight for them, and since they haven't sold the majority on adopting a union mentality. this is their plan 'B.'

Well then I will tell you that when the company DOES....AND THEY WILL...SCREW YOU and your entire pilot group, everyone will all stand idly by and laugh! Keep your current "group" and see what happens! Good luck with that...maybe you should listen to SSDD who has been at Skywst forever!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I appreciate your opinion. I have mine. SkyWest responds to the market, not to ALPA, Teamsters, or whomever. ALPA doesn't dictate to the market what pay, QOL, work rules, etc. will be. It is the other way around.


If we are only replicating what other regionals got before us, then why do we have so many things that are better?

I don't agree with your argument. So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

skyclown,
I do not respect your position, nor do appreciate your opinion. You are 100% wrong, in the past SKYW has used the leading UNION regional airlines contracts for comparison during"pay talks". I have been ALPA, at a prior regional 8 years ago. You pimp the company JBs,2daves, and all of the other kool-aid drinkers like rush l. sound bites. ALPA is not trying to dissolve SAPA, they petitioned the courts for a legal opinion and relief from possibly illegal operations by the company. If those issues are found to be anything other than legal by the court , the decision will have been rendered by the courts as provided by the constiution. SKYW has been running roughshod over this pilot group, using SAPA as the tool and messenger of choice.I have always spoken vocally that SAPA is an illegal/immoral entity, SKYW spends in excess of $650,000 yearly on the operation of SAPA, yet they couldn't pay the EMB guys anything? Your arguments are poorly researched, and are mostly company supplied rhetoric, do your own research. The company funded union has been done before, check it out, it was illegal then and it is still today. I want BH to tell me as a pilot for the company why I need to have PBS stuffed down my throat, the $hitty payscale, constant erosion the work rules(re: daily reconcillation vs leg by leg). You are either with the pilot group or with the company, it really is that simple.
In either case, please apply to another union carrier and "move up", so we can be rid of your kind. I want somebody I can trust sitting in the seat next to me not a "button pusher, commissioned ballast type"
So for now,
Continental, Delta and UAL are hiring and I am sure they would welcome you and your anti union rhetoric.
PBR
P.S. Quite a few of the more recent transplants came from "other ALPA regional" carriers, fact is they couldn't get hired BY SKYW previously, SKYW has become desperate due to the GREED factor and has become willing to lower the standards that they had previously used and a benchmark for hiring. Now we hire 1000/100 types who in days past wouldn't get an interview. You obviously are one of those last choice type who wouldn't have been hired 5-6 years ago. Fact is I actually pity you, you will never experience "the good old days of yore", you will be a hamster on a tread mill, getting nowhere in a hurry. Now go to the company website and pick up some of that mesa 1.5 overtime and make Jerry and his kids another wheelbarrow of money. At least the F/As were getting 2x for awhile, you are too stupid and greedy to wait for that, so carry on.

 

[Tomct]

skyclown,
I do not respect your position, nor do appreciate your opinion. You are 100% wrong, in the past SKYW has used the leading UNION regional airlines contracts for comparison during"pay talks". I have been ALPA, at a prior regional 8 years ago. You pimp the company JBs,2daves, and all of the other kool-aid drinkers rush l. sound bites. ALPA is not trying to dissolve SAPA, they petitioned the courts for a legal opinion and relief from possibly illegal operations by the company. If those issues are found to be anything other than legal by the court , the decision will have been rendered by the courts as provided by the constiution. SKYW has been running roughshod over this pilot group, using SAPA as the tool and messenger of choice.I have always spoken vocally that SAPA is an illegal/immoral entity, SKYW spends in excess of $650,000 yearly on the operation of SAPA, yet they couldn't pay the EMB guys anything? Your arguments are poorly researched, and are mostly company supplied rhetoric, do your own research. The company funded union has been done before, check it out, it was illegal then and it is still today. I want BH to tell me as a pilot for the company why I need to have PBS stuffed down my throat, the $hitty payscale, constant erosion the work rules(re: daily reconcillation vs leg by leg). You are either with the pilot group or with the company, it really is that simple.
In either case, please apply to another union carrier and "move up", so we can be rid of your kind. I want somebody I can trust sitting in the seat next to me not a "button pusher, commissioned ballast type"
So for now,
Continental, Delta and UAL are hiring and I am sure they would welcome you and your anti union rhetoric.
PBR
P.S. Quite a few of the more recent transplants came from "other ALPA regional" carriers, fact is they couldn't get hired BY SKYW previously, SKYW has become desperate due to the GREED factor and has become willing to lower the standards that they had previously used and a benchmark for hiring. Now we hire 1000/100 types who in days past wouldn't get an interview. You obviously are one of those last choice type who wouldn't have been hired 5-6 years ago. Fact is I actually pity you, you will never experience "the good old days of yore", you will be a hamster on a tread mill, getting nowhere in a hurry. Now go to the company website and pick up some of that mesa 1.5 overtime and make Jerry and his kids another wheelbarrow of money. At least the F/As were getting 2x for awhile, you are too stupid and greedy to wait for that, so carry on.

PBStreet...good post. You made me aware of some things. Nice to know there are folks (and I know there are) at Skywst that are not full on Kool-Aid drinkers. Hope the skies treat you kindly, you would be welcome on my Jumpseat ANYTIME!!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBStreet...good post. You made me aware of some things. Nice to know there are folks (and I know there are) at Skywst that are not full on Kool-Aid drinkers. Hope the skies treat you kindly, you would be welcome on my Jumpseat ANYTIME!!

Ditto for you dude!
Employee/employer relationship is a yin and yang thing, diametrically opposed. For a stasis to be achieved the power must be equally shared, labor must acknowledege its responsibility to managment/company, and the company must acknowledge its responsiability to the employees. EQUALLY, that is not the case today, ULTIMATE POWER ULTIMATELY CORRUPTS!
See wikkipedia-SAPA, 2daves ect.
PBR