what the hell "sapa"

[SkyNation]

you can be a rep and support, or be a member of, the OC.

it is duplicitous and deceptive, however, to hide your support for one or the other until elected.

 

[Nightrain_080]

ouchy

SAPA guys accused of ulterior motives, OC guys accused of the same.

Pot, I'd like to introduce Kettle.

MN is supposed to be the president of SAPA, not a Trojan Horse sent in to undermine and eventually undo it. Copy of a portion of statements from his testimony in federal court;

CROSS EXAMINATION (of MN)

BY MR. SPAGAT:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. N.
A. Good Afternoon
Q. You are an ALPA supporter; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you were when you ran for president of SAPA?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you were elected president of SAPA, it being known
that you were an ALPA supporter?
A. That was not public.
Q. It's known now; isn't that true?
A. It is now, yes, sir.

IF this is all you have then take it and run. M.N. is working for the pilots not for a future management job. You can't have one leg in bed with management and the other leg with the pilots. WAKE UP. If you can placate the daves and their double talk and arse kissing then you deserve what they give you. 0% raise for Brasilia drivers? 1% for the RJ and a hokey Bend override for the 700/900. That should be all the information you need to make a conscious decision on whether or not the daves and sapa are really in your corner. Let's not wait around another 7+ years to get a seat at the table where at least we have a REAL chance at cashing in our ACE. At the present moment Aces don't exist, they're a bloody pipe dream.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

you can be a rep and support, or be a member of, the OC.

it is duplicitous and deceptive, however, to hide your support for one or the other until elected.

There's a difference between "hiding" something, and choosing not to make a huge issue out of it...his support was not hidden! If you didn't have such a huge chip on your shoulder against ALPA, the fact that all he really wants is to do is improve things for Skyw pilots(which is what we elected him for), is all that matters!

 

[SkyNation]

If you didn't have such a huge chip on your shoulder against ALPA, the fact that all he really wants is to do is improve things for Skyw pilots(which is what we elected him for), is all that matters!

that's what we all want, that goes without saying. the vehicle that will get us there is where the dispute lies. I don't believe ALPA will get us anything better than what we currently have, but will bring with it lots of things the majority of us don't want. I don't have a 'chip' on my shoulder regarding it, but I DO have experience flying for an ALPA represented pilot group. do you? I don't have any fantasies or illusions about what they can/will do for us.

the head of the OC effort in SLC told me their biggest obstacle is guys who've come from ALPA carriers and want nothing to do with it. why is my experience and that of almost all the other folks who've come from ALPA regionals automatically discounted and discredited by the OC and it's supporters? does our experience count for anything?

we all want what we feel like would be better for the airline. what that is and how we get there is where we differ.

 

[skyhogg]

but I DO have experience flying for an ALPA represented pilot group. do you?

Skynation:

Although I disagree with you, I recognize your posts as usually well thought out and I see that you believe in your position and thats cool.

This quote however seems to be your tag line over and over again and it gets tiresome. I HAVE worked for an ALPA carrier and I had some things there that I wish I had at SKW but will never have (insurances at the very least and yes, I think most would agree they are worth the money).

For those that haven't worked anywhere but SKW, I think that you are smart enough to realize that they can formulate an opinion nonetheless by observation and by listening to others.

For every former ALPA guy at SKW who's happy to be non union now, I'll bet you could find 2 (if you looked at ALL ALPA carriers) who are thankful to have some of the protections afforded by legal representation. Is it a magic pill? Of course not...but noone here, to my recollection has ever said that it would make everything perfect forever.

Keep the thoughtful posts coming...but lay off the "I've been there, have you?" rhetoric. Many of us have and those who havent dont need the condescending remarks to deminish their opinions.

 

[SSDD]

The problem with most of these guys who have made lateral moves from another regional to Skywest, is that they came from real crappy operations. Their experiences are not typical. For those places to be where they are right now is a tremendous accomplishment.

They conviniently overlook those details.

I'm not an ALPA cheerleader, but I recognize that things at Skywest are worse today than they were 8 or 10 years ago.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I'm not an ALPA cheerleader, but I recognize that things at Skywest are worse today than they were 8 or 10 years ago.

This is the exact person who SKW people need to speak with, not somebody who made a lateral move within the past 2 years or so.

Good luck SSDD and others.

 

[SkyNation]

This quote however seems to be your tag line over and over again and it gets tiresome. ..but lay off the "I've been there, have you?" rhetoric. Many of us have and those who havent dont need the condescending remarks to deminish their opinions.

understood. I can do without those who patently disregard my posts just because I don't agree with them and their positions. I'd guess that is about 90% of the folks here. In like manner, I don't need their condescending remarks.

I look forward to when/if this thing ever gets voted on. I believe the majority will side with my line of thinking, believing that what we have is better than what most ALPA represented regionals have been able to get. Until we see others doing better (not just one regional), it's a tough sell and the majority just a'int buying.

 

[SSDD]

The thing is there is no changing these people's minds until they themselves get screwed, then they become true believers.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

that's what we all want, that goes without saying. the vehicle that will get us there is where the dispute lies. I don't believe ALPA will get us anything better than what we currently have, but will bring with it lots of things the majority of us don't want. I don't have a 'chip' on my shoulder regarding it, but I DO have experience flying for an ALPA represented pilot group. do you? I don't have any fantasies or illusions about what they can/will do for us.

the head of the OC effort in SLC told me their biggest obstacle is guys who've come from ALPA carriers and want nothing to do with it. why is my experience and that of almost all the other folks who've come from ALPA regionals automatically discounted and discredited by the OC and it's supporters? does our experience count for anything?

we all want what we feel like would be better for the airline. what that is and how we get there is where we differ.

First off, I've worked at plenty of other flying jobs before coming here...but more importantly you keep repeating ad nauseum your above line "we all want what we feel like would be better for the airline. what that is and how we get there is where we differ."
Okay, other than ALPA, How do we get there???? We've been sliding backwards with SAPA representing managements best interests for years, and the inhouse union thing has already been tried and failed.